How realistic is sawing 60,000 bf per year using customer resources?

[freesouled]

I was thinking of purchasing a Peterson ASM.  I would need to cut around 40,000 bf per year at 180 per thousand just to pay the note.  I was not planning on using my own resources for the timber, but rather finding customers and saw their logs.  I live in south MS along the gulf coast and I am not sure what type of market there is available.

Sawmilling has been in the family for decades.  My dad has a Timber Master fully hydraulic headache mill.  It has issues in my opinion.  He doesn't advertise and has cut around 25 k this year.  He says he will sell his mill and give me his business if I make the purchase. 

I plan to go portable.  My dad makes his customers bring him the logs.  What do you guys think?  Am I living in fantasy land or what?

[Tom]

Once you are known, 250 to 300 thousand a year is quit doable

60,000 is a breeze.

[freesouled]

My dad currently has about 15k ready to be cut and delivered to his customer.  That same customer has another 15k needing to be cut.  I think I could make the first year ok...It is just the following 7 or 8 years (depending on financing of the mill) that worries me.

[Brad_S.]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum! 8)

I agree with Tom. Just last week, I cut 11,000 bdft at one customers location. Getting your name out as a dependable, quality sawyer is the key to staying busy.

[VA-Sawyer]

The first year may be a bit tough till folks get to know your work. If folks like your sawing then 60,000+ should be doable after that. Notice I didn't say EASY, nothing about running a sawmill is easy.
VA-Sawyer

[SawDust_Studios]

The woodmizer lt40hd I just sold was less than 2 yrs old and we sawed over 50mbf only on weekends.  Once people know you have a mill and what your cabable of, business usually picks up.  It ain't easy, but persistance helps.  

Is the 180/mbf the going rate around you?  Seems a little low. Around here, we are getting between 250-350/mbf for custom sawing.

For a portable business, have you looked at other mills, like Woodmizer?  I know nothing about peterson, but I'd say you can get more production from a portable bandmill than a swinger.

[freesouled]

Is the 180/mbf the going rate around you?  Seems a little low. Around here, we are getting between 250-350/mbf for custom sawing.

For a portable business, have you looked at other mills, like Woodmizer?  I know nothing about peterson, but I'd say you can get more production from a portable bandmill than a swinger.

The 180 per thousand is based on the contract my dad has for the 30k from the one customer.  Also is a good worst case to base my research on.

As far as other mills...I am sold on the Peterson.  I may consider droping to the WPF but according to my calculations there isn't that much difference in the minimums I would need to cut in order to pay the note. 

[Minnesota_boy]

How fast can you say NO! ?   If you do a decent job, people will find you and demand that you cut for them too.  You'll soon be so far behind in sawing that you will have no time for anything else.

[DanG]

As Tom pointed out, the 60,000 in a year would be easy.  That's only a bit over a thousand per week!

For a portable operation, I'd tend to go with the WPF, rather than the ASM.  It is much quicker and easier to set up and take down.   With an ASM, I'd set it up stationary and let them bring the logs to me.  You really need an off-bearer to get good production from any of the swingers, IMHO.

[Captain]

You all know that I am a Peterson guy, but I have to agree with DanG on the portable comment.

I would not go out and setup the ASM remote for less than 5000BF, just not worth the effort.  By the time it is up and running, the WPF has cut a few hundred board feet.  WPF is the way to go for portable jobs, mine average 1250-1500BF.  I now have 2  .  The WPF is simple, cheap and easy to maintain, and produces some really nice lumber at impressive speeds.

Captain

[Ianab]

Yup.. any of the swingblades you can operate alone, and get reasonable production.
But with 2 people you will approx double what you can do alone. With an ASM I'd suggest 2 off-loaders and they better be fit  ;)

Ian

[freesouled]

Can one man set up the WPF?  I was originaly looking at the WPF and then started drouling over the ASM.  Can you fit the WPF in the back of a toyota pickup?  What would you guys suggest for size of the WPF.  My first potential customer is requesting 2x12 down to 2 x6 and some 4 x 6.  How hard is it to doublecut with the WPF?  Should I just get 10" blade and largest engine available?

[freesouled]

Does anyone have a Peterson mill within about 4-6 hour drive from the Mississippi/Alabama stateline starting from I-10 on the coast.  I would love to see one in action.  I have watched the videos but would love to see it in person.

[LOGDOG]

Welcome to the Forum Freesouled. I see you found it alright. Good talking to you on the phone the other day. ( I assume that's you.)

Just to put in two cents. My job down in Baton Rouge that's coming up is 20,000 bd ft and I'm charging the man $7000.00. I won't saw for $180/thousand. I'd just as soon go fishin' than work for that.

As to setting up the mill with one person... I've done it quite a few times. It's a bit harder for me because I have 42 feet of rail. If I take one 14 foot section out and decrease the length to 28 feet it's no biggee. A friend of mine made a jig for setting the rails up alone that works pretty slick. I can get you a diagram if need be. I don't use it myself as I have a forklift now too aid me at home.

You're welcome to come see me in Baton Rouge if you like. By the way, check out my gallery now that you're here and you'll see some of the pictures I was talking about.

LOGDOG

[Fla._Deadheader]

I go remote in Costa Rica. I do have help, but, my WPF could be set-up and running within 30 minutes, by myself, IF the area is clean and reasonably flat. I use a trailer and loading the carriage is easy. We have very uneven ground here, so, lots of blocking and shimming, which eats up time.

  I agree with the others, 60,000 is not hard to achieve, if you have logs available.

[Captain]

I'm not a 10" WPF fan if you're cutting alot, the frame is too big and heavy to push all of the time, and the kerf is wider.  It flat out saws harder.  My favorite is a 27hp 8" WPF standard frame with hi lo and electric winch.  You can load that in the back of a Toyota, but the lower the loading surface, the better. 

Keep an eye in our ebsite for used mills coming available as well.  I think there is a 2005 model WPF coming up in Georgia soon.

www.swingmills.com

Or click the TimberPro Icon on the left.

Captain

[Part_Timer]

27 hp 8" WPF and start cutting.

I have the ATS and am considering doing the conversion to the WPF frame.

I've not run an ASM before but looks to me like you'd need lots of help tailing to make full use of it's abilities.

[freesouled]

You guessed right Logdog, it is me.  This forum is about the best thing since the invention of the chainsaw :D  After talking with you on the phone I started doing some calculations and just about scared myself  away from getting a mill.  Everyone here has really helped out so far and I appreciate the advice.  So far it is looking like I need to downshift and get the WPF 8".   I have my eyes peeled for a used mill, but may consider buying new.

How much trouble is double cutting with the peterson mills?

[Fla._Deadheader]

  WPF, remove the blade shield and if yer cuts line up, from side to side, start making wide boards.  ;) :D

[LOGDOG]

It's no trouble to double cut at all Freesouled. The blade shield on mine removes with two 9/19" nuts. As long as i'm in a relatively controlled environment working alone or with experienced help, I usually have it off anyway. So if I nee to double cut I just move on over the extra distance and cut with the backside of the blade. On mine, I can cut 20.5". If we get together I'll show you. But remember ... there is the 6'',8'', and 10" mill. You can only double cut twice the dimension + about 1/2" of your mills labeled capability. Follow"

I don't blame you for approaching your decision with caution. Think it out. I definitely would not recommend buying one until you've seen it in person. One step further, I would not buy one until you see the "specific model you intend to buy" in person and are able to test it. Seeing mine will give you the idea of how the swingblade mechanism works and let you wrap your mind around that. But if you're thinking about a WPF then you need to experience the sizing adjustments you have to make manually as well as the manual feed.

Oh and by the way, I agree ... the Forum is the best thing since the invent of the chainsaw. Lots of good folks here and a ton of experience, mixed with just enough ego and humor to keep things fun. Welcome aboard and let us know where we can help. You have my number.

LOGDOG

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Welcome to the Learning Place, freesouled!

I will echo some of the other comments.   The ASM will demand that you always have help, or the machine won't pay off.   The ASM would also require bigger log supplies, namely, bigger jobs to pay off.  Even on my Mississippi trips with two 10"WPFs, I found that the optimum size job was at least 40 big logs.  On the other hand the WPF can pay with help or not.  You just adjust your routine to work either way.  (Peterson's videos show this clearly.)

As far as whether to go 8" or 10",  you certainly don't want to go 10", unless you really, I mean really want that 10" capacity (or the 20" double cut capacity).   I did want it, so I bought it.  I probably would do the same again.  In general, I was looking to cut oversized trees into oversized "stuff." 

You goal is more aligned to cutting for the general public and that will make a difference.  From what I am hearing you say,  8"WPF 27h.P. seems like your dream boat to me!   If you get in on one of these used, then do good work...
  NO PROBLEMA [/color] ![/b] [/size]
Phil L.

[getoverit]

I can easily cut 1000bf of dimensional lumber a day with my Peterson ATS. It is a lot of work moving the logs into position, but it can be done with a skid steer and some log bunks made for the job.

The bigger the logs, the higher the production... simple as that.... the less log handling and more the blade can stay in the wood, the higher the production. 60k boardfeet of lumber translates to 60 days of sawing (or less)  if you can get the logs to saw and the customers who have logs.