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General Forestry => Chainsaws => Topic started by: doc henderson on February 10, 2019, 02:11:41 PM

Title: ms880 dog
Post by: doc henderson on February 10, 2019, 02:11:41 PM
so I have the ms 880,  It is not fully broke in yet, and I got the 5 foot bar and have a skip tooth chain.  wanting an update on how to get more power.  In a big cut, it will bog down in the cut.  I was told before I got it, that they were kind of a dog, and I should buy the big husky.  I am stubborn.  Have read about a bigger sprocket, about engine porting and waiting on a call back.  also about putting on a ignition with out a limiter.  I have been told it skips a spark every so often.  It is heavy and I don't like fighting it just to keep it running in the cut.
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: sawguy21 on February 10, 2019, 02:56:36 PM
How many tanks of gas have you run through it? Maybe the dealer can fine tune it  once it's broken in. No way around it, the 880 is a heavy beast
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: doc henderson on February 10, 2019, 03:31:01 PM
only 2 or 3.  I tend to not use it cause it is frustrating.  It is a good workout.  I have the 3 foot bar on, maybe I should put the 25 inch on and use it more.  Like shooting skeet with a 10 g pump!  and yes I have done that.
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: doc henderson on February 10, 2019, 03:34:43 PM
how many tanks until you would consider it broke in?
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: lxskllr on February 10, 2019, 04:13:54 PM
The internet said 6-10 tanks for my 362cm. Dunno how widely that applies across the lineup, and I'd be a liar if I said I could tell a difference between new performance, and tenth tank performance. I was concentrating on not cutting my leg off, and not how the saw was performing though   :^D
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: doc henderson on February 10, 2019, 04:25:16 PM
I think it just did not meet my expectations.  will have to see, maybe lower my expectations.  There was a guy on this forum who does the mods.  thought about sending my 046,  do not remember his name.  I spoke to him back in october and have not heard back.  i will cut some wood today and get it out.  
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: Air Lad on February 11, 2019, 05:21:02 AM
Quote from: doc henderson on February 10, 2019, 02:11:41 PM
so I have the ms 880,  It is not fully broke in yet, and I got the 5 foot bar and have a skip tooth chain.  wanting an update on how to get more power.  In a big cut, it will bog down in the cut.  I was told before I got it, that they were kind of a dog, and I should buy the big husky.  I am stubborn.  Have read about a bigger sprocket, about engine porting and waiting on a call back.  also about putting on a ignition with out a limiter.  I have been told it skips a spark every so often.  It is heavy and I don't like fighting it just to keep it running in the cut.
It might just be me but a freshly sharpened chain seems to cut better after a few slices. 
It is widely said that they go better after a number of tanks through from new
but I never noticed on a smallish Husky I bought new. At the time but I would not have been too aware of performance. 
But if there is going to be much difference you wouldn't expect it to be a great deal . I owned a prawn trawler for 12 yrs and the saying was...There is no substitute for horsepower.
Big saws I have little knowledge of but I feel your pain doc
Hope you get some satisfaction mate
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: mredden on February 11, 2019, 07:22:04 AM
Ten tanks then re-tune in the cut at a place of your average cutting elevation. I think that's traditional thinking.

Is it neccessary with modern saws? I dunno, but I always reserve judgment until a new saw reaches that point.
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: teakwood on February 11, 2019, 07:26:15 AM
at least 15-20 tanks 
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: doc henderson on February 11, 2019, 11:25:23 AM
Here is me and the 880, vs a little cottonwood.  



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/A86C15E2-1E41-4B80-9CE9-74002BBDA5A0.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1549902152)
 


Maybe I just wanted to venture into "mod" territory.  I have opened up exhaust on my 046, any concerns with porting as far as longevity or starting a saw?  The above is by the lake at camp, the 5 foot bar made it about 6 inches out the other side.
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: Somewhat Handy on February 11, 2019, 11:33:51 AM
Did you say you were looking at a bigger sprocket? To me, bogging sounds like a torque issue. If you want more torque to power through, then I think the smaller sprocket will reduce your RPM max but give you a little more grunt. This is just what I've read on this site and elsewhere. I'm sure those who know will pipe up.
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: doc henderson on February 11, 2019, 11:36:59 AM
yes that makes more sense there is no big flywheel to build momentum.  Had read that in the past when I was making my decision to buy
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: HolmenTree on February 11, 2019, 11:50:39 AM
Doc, from my experience those big saws can take a couple hundred tanks of fuel to fully seat the rings and bearings to maximum power.
They're built for longevity.
What were you using the 5 foot bar for?
Ranchers here used those long bars to cut round hay bails  in half  I used mine to cut paper rolls.
Best way to break that 880 in is put it on a Alaskan mill or better yet one of those stand up mills one of our sponsors sell here.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21589/anna_023-002.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1358264289)
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: doc henderson on February 11, 2019, 02:53:48 PM
I like to make cookies.  so I got the 880 after had problem with the 661 not starting after warm. They never figured it out, so I went up a size.  I feel like it turns slow enough that it gets caught up in the cut, kind of like a cheap 110 volt electric that just kinda drags.  I had huge expectations, and everyone tried to tell me it would be clunky and recommended Husky at that size saw.  It is mine now, so will try to use it more often, but it is not my favorite saw thus it is not nearly broke in.  I was told the ignition depowered the saw, like a rev limiter. skipping a spark on a regular basis.  I don't want to waste money on "upgrades" or "mods" if they will not help.  Sounds like I should take it to Georgia in april and let every one put some hours on it and see what they think of it.
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: RockChucker30 on February 11, 2019, 03:01:43 PM
I noticed some improvement in my 880 after three tanks.  It's still pretty new, need to get out in the next couple weeks and run a few more tanks through it.

I had issues with bogging in the first couple cuts, but since then it's gotten a lot better.  I set the dogs in and let the saw work without forcing it.

I bought it primarily for milling, so I'm hoping for longevity.  Don't plan to do any mods at all, but certainly not until the warranty is up.
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: HolmenTree on February 11, 2019, 03:12:35 PM
Brand new 880 on a 5 foot bar with big .404 chain in that big cottonwood is not like cutting cookies with the 661 :D
Put that bar and chain on your 661 and try it in that log, you'll be disappointed even more.

Take it back to your dealer and have him check it out, on warranty you got nothing to lose.
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: stanmillnc on February 11, 2019, 03:35:04 PM
I destroyed my new 880 pushing it too hard and fast milling a 36" diameter dried hickory log. Deeply scored the cylinder; lost all compression, melted the clutch, etc. Stihl reluctantly agreed to put in a new cylinder under warranty as a one-time deal since my dealer convinced them I was a valued customer with multiple saws....but they cautioned me that they don't warranty their saws when used for milling. 

So I guess my advise would be not to push it too hard too quick until broken in and I also run a richer oil mix (~35:1), instead of the standard 50:1 and only use high quality synthetic two cycle oil in hopes of improving lubrication (recommended by my dealer). It's been okay since, but I have been a little disappointed in performance through the huge hardwoods I'm milling with it - it bogs down easily even at slow feed rates. It could be I don't sharpen my chains as well / often as I should however, so I probably shouldn't blame the saw!
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: smoked on February 11, 2019, 11:17:27 PM
I don't know if I read it here or somewhere else but don't run you mix rich.  Synthetic yes!  Premium non ethanol fuel, yes. But running rich changes the intended octane and that can cause detonation.  Sorry I don't have a link.  

Side note. my 661 has done great milling and I am happy.  I admittedly lust a little after the big saws but looking at specs, it seems to me the HP gain for weight ratio on the giant saws does not seem that great.  

I hope that once broken in that 880 starts getting it done for you.  I have a friend with an 090 that loves it and would not part with it for anything.
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: ehp on February 12, 2019, 08:18:42 AM
the husky 3120 is no better , if anything its not as good . Both saws have limited coils . I have owned/ported Im sure well over a 100 of these saws. But in stock form both kind of suck . A 5 foot bar running .404 chain is asking a lot thou so it will not have the power if you dogged the spikes in hard and pull . I have sold quite a few 880's the last couple years running 47 inch bars to guys in Toronto that are milling table tops . No I have none for sale and Im not looking for porting work , Sorry .
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: mredden on February 12, 2019, 08:23:05 AM
How is your oiler set?

I wasn't happy with my 390xp the first couple of tanks. Bogged some in the cut.  Then, I noticed the chain wasn't very oily and the sprocket housing was much too dusty rather than greasy.. Checked the oiler setting and it was on the lowest setting. Turned it wide open and the bogging went away even when I buried the tip of my 36" inch bar in very hard live oak. (Getting a 43" this week)

I kept the oiler on wide open til I had run about 15 tanks ( the last 10 tanks were milling red oak and some live oak)  then turned it back to the medium setting. I'm in love with the saw now. Probably gonna tune slightly richer now than the factory settings because it will be primarily a milling saw.
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: Old Greenhorn on February 12, 2019, 12:30:24 PM
Quote from: doc henderson on February 11, 2019, 02:53:48 PM
I like to make cookies.  so I got the 880 after had problem with the 661 not starting after warm. They never figured it out, so I went up a size. 
Doc, just got this, missed it before. On a hunch, if you still have that 880, check and make sure your have a resistor plug in it for sure. This is a common problem that can drive a man crazy, and it has a very simple solution. I truly hope that is it. Gotta have a resistor plug.
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: doc henderson on February 12, 2019, 12:43:23 PM
Thanks OG.  i assume it will have an R in the number?  It is what ever came with.  mredden thx. i will turn up the oil.  and ehp, I guess my question is would it help the 880 after break in or how about my 046.   when I first got it (046) they told me at the dealer it was not worth it to rebuild it.  Now they  are over a 1,000 dollars and they say it is worth it.  I guess I am curious about a hotter saw, but I also want it dependable.  porting just improves flow if I understand it correctly.  as an example, On my truck i have the programmer and better air intake, but not the exhaust cause I did not want the noise.  cat removed.  So curious about the most bang for the buck without the whole saw going bang!
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: Old Greenhorn on February 12, 2019, 12:49:09 PM
I was surprised to learn this little detail a while back, and then further learned that some dealers don't even realize the significance. One shop did n't even sell resistor plugs. Yeah, it should have an "R" in there somewhere. If it was new with a new saw, it should be could, but what does it cost to check? You never know. A non-resistor plug does not seem to pass the spark as well when it gets hot. If your saw started right back up after it cooled, that could be it, or the plug is going. Cheap fix, right?
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: doc henderson on February 12, 2019, 12:52:41 PM
Quote from: Old Greenhorn on February 12, 2019, 12:49:09 PM
I was surprised to learn this little detail a while back, and then further learned that some dealers don't even realize the significance. One shop did n't even sell resistor plugs. Yeah, it should have an "R" in there somewhere. If it was new with a new saw, it should be could, but what does it cost to check? You never know. A non-resistor plug does not seem to pass the spark as well when it gets hot. If your saw started right back up after it cooled, that could be it, or the plug is going. Cheap fix, right?
Thanks OG.  I will check, it was the 661 that had that problem and after many trips to the dealer as it was intermittant, i moved to the 880.  i think my expectation may be part of the issue, but I feel better with a plan of action than not.  Thanks all
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: lxskllr on February 12, 2019, 01:17:45 PM
Regarding porting...  I think you're almost certainly shaving hours off the lifespan. Conservative would be little loss, aggressive, moreso. If it was simply free performance, it would come that way from the factory. They have high paid engineers to make the best product they can, for the anticipated use. Your particular use case is up to you. Are you willing to risk reduced life for better performance? Do you want to pay ~50% of the saw cost to have it done(assuming you don't do the work yourself)?


I used to overclock computers. Back in the day, you could get real returns, and save real money by buying mid tier and boosting performance. The cost was more expensive cooling, and phantom problems if you tried to push it too far, including "invisible" memory corruption. It was just a hobby for me, and I'm conservative by nature, so I'd go for max I could get at a reasonable cooling expenditure(I don't do water), then back off it a bit for safety. That gave me a solid machine, and a reasonable lifespan. My livelihood didn't depend on it, so failure was just a bit of money and time. I wouldn't run a business on an overclocked machine. Not much point anymore. Computers are "good enough", and my interests lie elsewhere.


All of which is to say, you need to weigh the risks with the returns. With a pro logger, time is money. Time saved in the cut is money in the pocket. A fairly well endowed enthusiast can do what they want for kicks. Where do your values lie?


edit:
I seem to have trouble actually making a point... Where I was going with the computer overclocking is my last computer partially failed after five years. Caps were bulging, and it wouldn't dependably startup. I backed off the overclock a bit, and kept on using it. I lost ethernet, and usb became unreliable, but it kept on going. It finally died last year or the year before after ~12 years, and I replaced it with a refurbed Dell. I swore I'd never buy a prebuilt, but here I am; fat and happy, with everything just working. Just don't care anymore. Would it have died had I not overclocked it? Would it have really mattered? 12 years a good run no matter how you slice it, and my $300 replacement blows it out of the water. Time marched on, and I got some "free" performance out of an economical machine for longer than I should have. Porting will give you "free" performance at the risk of a shorter life, but maybe the next iteration of saws will make it worth buying another before the natural life of the 880 is up. IOW, you may not need the part of the saw's life you're losing. Or maybe you will. Your call...
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: doc henderson on February 12, 2019, 04:24:38 PM
thanks lxskllr,  I think we are kinda on the same page, I just don't have real experience to help me way the pros and cons.  Your computer story is analogous to my truck mods I would say
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: doc henderson on February 13, 2019, 09:36:32 PM
got the 880 to put some miles on it.  I think it just put miles on me.  I have a smaller bar, but it was getting dark.  I think I can get this thing broke in and take off 20 pounds and not even go to the gym.  I think I will change to the smaller bar for future firewood.  getting ready for camp Alaska this weekend, and cutting up some ole locust logs for the wood stove.  high was going to be mid 40s now it is expected 25.



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/6CAFCE5B-76BD-47C7-9CC4-99B200B62B87.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1550110410)
 



(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/51041/6DC82E95-81F3-420E-9204-34A25886898A.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1550110408)
 
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: HolmenTree on February 13, 2019, 10:17:55 PM
doc, noodle split those rounds that'll also help break her in.
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: doc henderson on February 13, 2019, 10:21:28 PM
It was a little boggy to hit the throttle, but been sitting a while.  what is noodle splitting, I assume the long way.  I think the saw will have me broke in, before I get her broke in.
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: HolmenTree on February 14, 2019, 07:03:22 AM
Yep block laying flat and cut full length down the middle. 
Friend of mine bought a brand new 084  in the late 1980's from Madsens. 
They milled the cylinder base for more compression,  did a heavy woods port job and put a tuned exhaust pipe on it.
He brought it to the competition with less then a tank through it.
He was very disappointed. 
Title: Re: ms880 dog
Post by: offrink on February 15, 2019, 10:34:08 PM
I've put hundreds of hours on an 880. Keeping the rpm's high is key. Once it bogs down you have to slow the cut down. What you don't realize while milling is that the extra friction by the chain on the wood, especially with a big bar.