Hello, I am finally moving ahead with this project. Will be posting progress in this thread for anyone who might be interested.
Here are photos up until now. Received the logs about a month ago and waxed them up with Lee Valley Log Sealer. They are mostly EWP with some Red Pine mixed in for spares and non-critical members.
Last photo is where the cabin will be raised.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180217_080443.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1525139889)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180402_082153_forum.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1525139819) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180402_082205_forum.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1525139821) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180402_083811.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1525139823) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180402_085442.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1525139825) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180402_132857.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1525139827) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180402_141919.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1525139829)
Finally started milling. Almost halfway done. I am getting some nice clear beams but also some pretty knotty stuff as well. I'll be using the knotty stuff for posts and clear for rafters, plates and ties. Weather went from 31C for first two days then to 6C. At least no flies at 6C ;D.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180531_161048.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528162220)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180601_132326.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528162212)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180603_124930.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528162205)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180603_131144.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528162191)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180603_135251.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528162160)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180603_135506.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528162146)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180603_170435.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528162148)
Nice looking whack! I'm excited to see this project. As far as the temperature goes: you can always put more layers on, but you can only take so many off. :D
8)
:P
Just for size idea, are those timbers in the last picture 8x8s in the middle and 6x8s up front?
Hi John,
Yes, those are 8x8's in the middle. The nearest stack has rows of 5x7's and 4x6's.
I went back and looked again at your pics. You've really maxed out your cuts on those logs! Were you getting two 8x8s out of a log? It looks like you were splitting the pith on them :-X
Flyingparks - exactly, prefer working in cool weather!
John - that last log was quartered into 4 - 9x9's. So I got 2 - 8x8's and 4 - 4x6's. I could have pulled out 5x7s instead but wood wasnt clear enough for rafters.
Hi Tim,
I am very interested in your project! You are doing what many of us wish to be doing. Do you have a cabin design finalized yet?
Sterling.
Hi Sterling, thanks. I do have a finalized design (almost done). 16'x20'
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/16x20_Cabin_Plans_with_Delray_Mods~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528210885)
Tim,
I am currently building the same Sobon frame, but in a 16x26 format. It is not going to be insulated, but other than that it is pretty much the same building, which is why I am so interested. I am still debating a few finish details, and am wondering what you have in mind for yours.
What are you doing for window and door framing? For a frame like this, how important is the window and door framing? Specifically, should this be mortised and tenoned into the main frame? (The same question applies for the nailers). I currently have in mind to use 4x4s that are mortised and tenoned, but it seems that this might be overkill.
I have found all kinds of good information readily available for building the frame, but when it comes to closing it in, there seems to be many options, which can be very confusing.
Sterling.
Days 5 and 6 of milling.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180607_105837.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528501010)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180607_105732.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528501011)
Nice clear (almost) 8x10x16 tie beam in the making
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180607_16523528029.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528501015)
This one was wicked. Ended up taking it off the mill. Might cut into two 8ft pieces and cut boards out of it...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180608_135758.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528501016)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180608_165841.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528501019)
Slab pile is getting bigger. One more white pine beam, then onto the red pine for boards and 2 by's.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180608_165856.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528501019)
Sterling,
This is a modified Sobon design. I guess the only real difference is going with housed bird's mouth rafters instead of step lapped. Hoping this will save me some time.
I will be enclosing with wrap and strap - check out Brian Weekley's post on this forum for his barn build. Very similar. I will have mortise/tenon for one girt per wall, but for the rest, I will probably just make housings and screw the girts into the posts from the outside. Similar to this but with housings and larger girts: https://www.facebook.com/shelterbuild/photos/a.10152637194290696.1073741825.189436415695/10159318420890696/?type=3&theater
Tim
Milling, Day 7. Finished all the white pine.
Last 8x10x16
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180609_095537.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528577148)
Ended up cutting the crooked 16' and 12' logs into 8' pieces. We quartered them and made some 2 by's for loft decking.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180609_132439.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528577071)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180609_154404.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528577078)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180609_164256.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528577082)
Only red pine left...and it is small. Will make a few spare beams and the rest into boards. One more day of sawing, then onto cutting joints!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180609_164245.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1528577079)
You are making great progress!
Really enjoy your progress and looking forward to more postings. Keep up the good work.
Thanks guys :)
Finally done milling.
Day 8 - finishing red pine into extra beams and rest into boards.
Found a few nests in the wood pile.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180615_090832.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529371095)
Trees are keeping the stacks mostly in the shade for a good part of the day. Still need to get them covered though.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180615_112959.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529371103)
These smaller logs were so much easier to handle!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180615_090840.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529371096)
Final results:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180615_175543.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529371100)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180615_175553.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529371104)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180615_175602.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529371107)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180615_175615.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529371109)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180615_175715.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529371113)
More slab wood than I know what to do with! And all the green bark is attracting too many bugs and borers for my liking.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180615_175726.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529371113)
Hopefully I will get all my cut sheets ready before the weekend and I can start planning my cutting plan.
Not sure if I should start with the smaller members (rafters, joists, braces) or with the bigger ones (tie beams, posts and plates). I'd prefer having my learning curve on the smaller stuff, but not sure if it will have a chance to move too much before assembly. I don't think I can cut the whole frame in less than 6 months.
Any thoughts on what to tackle first? I have a few extras for almost all the members.
Thanks,
Tim
P.S: found a photo from one of the bigger logs we milled. This is a 16' EWP.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180609_095537~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529373350)
Looking great, Tim! You'll be surprised how much you can cut once you get a rhythm going. The posts are probably going to be your most time consuming. If it were me, I would start with the sills to get your feet wet. Then, I would do a bent at a time. That way you don't get too ahead of yourself. Cut the posts, then the beam. I would definitely make a template for your braces and cut those all at once. Then the rafters. Just my advice. Also, take your sweet time and double check measurements. Especially on your first members.
Wow! It looks like your off to an excellent start Tim! Those are some beautiful timbers you have there. Good luck with the project and thanks for posting photos along the way. smiley_thumbsup
Thanks for the encouragement :)
Got some old pallets (free!) and two cheap 15'x20' tarps that I ripped up to make these fork friendly removable stack covers. It was time for this. Only 2-3 weeks in partial sun and already getting surface checking...hope this will reduce it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180621_195030.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529763392)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180621_201006.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529763388)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180621_203736.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529763392)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180621_204017.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529763395)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180622_172225.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1529763396)
Nice! But even in full shade, your beams are going to check a bit. You just can't stop the physics involved. Its called character! ;)
Great work here, thanks for sharing!
popcorn_smiley
Yesterday I got all the posts out on the saw horses to grade them visually and figure out which one will go where. Also marked the reference faces. Today I started layout on my first post! Taking my sweet time on the first ones until I get the hang of it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180629_125746.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1530392909)
Update:
Finally started cutting my first post. Overall I am happy with the results so far, except I managed to gouge out too much material on the bearing surface of the tie beam mortise. I took my time on the upper face then thought I could go faster on the bearing face...go figure...Has anyone tried filling these in with epoxy or something? Biggest gouge is about 3/16".
First cheek/shoulder.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180714_114833.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1531788403)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180714_122838.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1531788417)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180714_125140.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1531788398)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180714_132006.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1531788382)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180714_140543.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1531788356)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180714_162717.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1531788355)
Where I gouged out the bearing surface...worst spot is 3/16th under cut:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180714_154809.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1531788734)
First brace mortise.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180716_200101.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1531788359)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180716_200047.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1531788359)
I'm thinking it will take me about 1 full day per post at this rate...
Nice work. Enjoying your thread. Thanks for posting.
Is that a standard dozuki or does it have the special rip teeth. I've been thinking about getting one for green wood. Hard to find a good rip saw these days that doesn't cost and arm and two legs.
Thanks Btulloh. I believe it is a Gyokucho.
I wish I could find a 2" auger bit. Would save me some pairing on the mortises. Already eyeing a chain mortiser at this point ;) Having a hard time justifying it though :)
I can only work on the frame about one day per week and winter will be here before we know it...
Quote from: TimFromNB on July 17, 2018, 06:28:35 AM
I wish I could find a 2" auger bit. Would save me some pairing on the mortises. Already eyeing a chain mortiser at this point ;) Having a hard time justifying it though :)
It will get faster the more you do.
Consider an antique boring machine and bit--they do work well. However, as an experiment, I made a boring machine and it worked great. You can get a 2" bit here: http://logbuildingtools.ca/Wood_Auger_pricelist2.pdf
Millers Falls Dimensions in Timber Framing/Log construction (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=81347.msg1245160#msg1245160)
Looking great. A chain mortiser really speeds things up. If you look around a bit you'll find a brand new Makita for about $1600. My chain is still sharp on mine. But my friend recently told me replacements are $700. Ouch. I really enjoy using the boring machine on smaller projects.
You can file the chain, it's a little tricky but do-able. It's rare to see a used chain mortise for sale, they disappear fast. You lightly hollowed the bearing surface, high end work :)
Yes, very nice work and I am enjoying your thread...
Thanks for posting.
Quote from: TimFromNB on July 17, 2018, 06:28:35 AMI wish I could find a 2" auger bit. Would save me some pairing on the mortises.
will these help?
Milwaukee Self-Feed Drill Bits & Kits for Sale - Tools Plus (https://www.tools-plus.com/milwaukee-drill-bits-self-feed.html)
Milwaukee Self Feed Bits, Selfeed Bits (http://www.coastaltool.com/a/milwaukee/self-feed_bits.htm)
Milwaukee self-feed bit | Forstner & Self Feed Bits, Drills & Auger Bits | Log Home Store Building Supplies and Tools (https://www.loghomestore.com/product/milwaukee-self-feed-bit/)
https://www.loghelp.com/products/milwaukee-self-feed-bits.asp
Never tried one of those Milwaukee self-feed bits, but without the flutes on an auger, I can't see how they would clear chips from deep mortises or holes very well.
I have a Bosch bit that is the same design as the Milwaukee. Does not clear chips well at all. It does indeed self feed and can get itself in and jammed with chips before you can stop it. You can make it work but it's always on the edge of jamming on the chips, especially in green wood. This is 1/2". Maybe the bigger ones clear chips better.
not really much better. when the chips get around and over it, better pull up and remove them. they were really designed to punch through thinner stock and then self clear. in log work or heavy timber you can bury a fluted auger beyond your power to pull or drill power to reverse your way out. so any drill can be jammed like that, they each have different points. just be aware and clear as needed.
Nice work!!
Thanks for the feedback guys :). I am in the process of trying to build a boring machine with inspiration from Brian. That 2" bit is 18" long though, so I might stick with the 1 1/2".
Finished my first post. Started layout on the 2nd and am having a problem transferring lines from my reference face. It seems like there is a 1/4" bow in the top of the log where the half dovetail tie beam mortise will be. If I register my framing square with the blade towards the bottom of the post, I get a different transferred line location than if I register it towards the top. This is because in both cases, the square is square to that 24" of edge, but is within the bow and is at angle to the overall straight edge of the timber. What kind of tolerance do I have here? At what point do I start having to use chalk lines?
It is giving me just under 1/16" difference, which could mean that one side of the mortise shoulder is 1/16th lower than the other, i.e. out of square.
Registered to top:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180723_195518.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1532481362)
Registered to bottom (can't really see error in this photo - right edge):
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180723_195445.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1532481480)
Close up of error (distance from middle of thick line to thin line):
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180723_195711.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1532481441)
Another question, should I dish out my mortise housings for shrinkage or keep them square?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180720_184851.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1532481527)
First post completed:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180721_114301.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1532481358)
Thanks for your help!
Finished the drill press a few days ago. Kind of a hack job, but it is a utility piece ;). Hopefully I can test it out tomorrow.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180727_183030.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1532901855)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180727_183038.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1532901870)
Loaded up some of the slabs as well. Starting to get wormy.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180728_161208.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1532901845)
Finished the second post. Although I wasn't thinking right and hollowed out the bottom bearing surface of the post...I'll have to fill that in with epoxy or something :D.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180803_143327.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1534176114)
Got to try out the boring machine. Worked pretty good:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180802_123249.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1534178940)
Those through mortises are self cleaning :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180802_123550.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1534178978)
"Visually graded" the 8x10 tie beams. One seems to have some shake and another has pretty severe splits I think are from the felling (starts bottom left corner of picture below). It goes out on the left face, basically creating a triangular piece, almost like if there was a LOT of wane over a 4-5 ft length. This specific tie beam would not be carrying any vertical load (except exterior sheathing) but is tying the two eve walls. I have one spare, so I either pick the one with shake or with split. Or I try to get another beam somehow.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180811_144057.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1534180906)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180811_154107.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1534176119)
They all have some twist in them...hoping it is not my stack that is off ;D.
I've read in Will Beemer's book to place a straight edge (framing square) on both ends and sight it down. If the straight edges are out of parallel by more than 1/8" over their length, then I need to fixed the ends or use chalk lines. But I am not sure how to measure that value visually. I might try and reach out to the author. What do you guys do to check for twist?
Speaking of twist, can you guys spot the 4 red pine timbers in this stack? :D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180802_133511.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1534176110)
nice work, what part of NB you from?
Steve
I'm about 10 mins from Shediac. Yourself?
I'm located both ways from you, I live in Fredericton but I'm wrong the Miramichi area.
This was my project few years back! http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=22343.0 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=22343.0)
Welcome!
s Bishop,
Enjoyed your thread. Great job! Hope all is holding up well at your camp.
Bishop, I browsed through the thread quickly: very nice looking camp! Is that on a branch of the Miramichi? Looks like good fishing :)
Great job Tim, will watch your progress. smiley_thumbsup
Geeg
I cut some 8X8 from red pine. They was close to the sawmill. I could see the sawmill drooling as it looked at them. :D I put them up green and I noticed they started to twist. I only used 2-3. I went back to hemlock.
Good luck with your build.
Haven't posted an update in a while. Got held up working on a slightly twisted tie beam, so got an ink line and figured out "snap line square rule".
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20180929_163222.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1538957393)
Then I had the bright idea to test fit and raise the first bent. My Dad gave me a hand.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20181001_181426.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1538957377)
...but the rigging slipped and I lost most of my work to date...I was pretty upset :o. As you can see, one post is completely broken. The other has hairline splits around the tie beam mortise, so I will probably have to scarp it as well. I need to inspect the tie beam again, but the tenon might have held on without damage.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20181001_182601.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1538957378)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20181001_182607.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1538957381)
I noticed a few days later that there was some moisture beading in the affected joints. Must have been from the stress?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20181004_180035.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1538957760)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20181004_175857.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1538957770)
That will use up my spares. Plus, it looks like some of the other EWP timbers have shake. So I might have to go the log yard and get some more logs to have milled up...On the bright side, my joints fitted well and I ponied up the money for a chain mortiser to make up for lost time... :D
Sorry about your bad luck with the rigging slipping. Good lesson/reason not to be in the line of Fire when doing this.
Hey getting new toy tool helps make up for it a little.
Oh, bummer. :-\ I don't trust slings on forks. One of my forks had a hole burned through it. I use a shackle, then nothing can slip.
A good lesson here (sorry for your pain Tim, but perhaps we can learn from it):
One factor in timber frame design is the raising method.
Square rule layout from an edge, where the mortise is only 1.5" or 2" from the reference face, has limitations.
The thinner (outside) mortise wall is not designed to handle the torque that resulted from lifting only on the tie beam; the weight and levering of the posts may have twisted the dovetail joint causing the split. The tenon is unlikely to split; mortises are the weak point. Brace mortises could also fail if the bent is twisted like this.
If the bent was hand raised with the post bottoms supported by the deck this failure would likely not occur. Once the bent was vertical the joint can handle the stresses it was meant to take in service with no problem.
Mortises closer to the center of the timber would be better if the bent is to be raised as shown.
Strongbacks clamped across the joint would have also helped.
My 2 cents...
Tim,
I can understand that this is very upsetting, but look on the bright side... You got rid of that one mortise you really didn't care for too much anyway!
This is an awesome build. Don't let a setback like this get you down too much.
This reminds me of this saying I saw one time: "Experience is the best teacher.......... But tuition is high".
Sterling.
Thanks for the encouragement :). Certainly a lesson learned.
The post bottoms were sitting on blocks, though you might not be able to see them well in the picture. Basically, when it fell, the post bottoms were on the blocks, and the tie beam would have been at 8' off the ground. Although when it fell it's quite possible it also slid of the blocks and created the torque that split the posts.
Moving on... :D
.... Hey TimFromNB..how's the build coming along?? love to see the build up close someday... I do lotsa work in the Cape Pele area and only 40min away nice work..
Un Vautour de Richibucto? ;D I don't have many joints cut right now, but it would probably be worth seeing in a few months, especially if you haven't seen some in person before :D
I bought a house back in November so have been busy with that. I was able to bring some of the timbers back home and into my garage. It's an old shack really, but it cuts out most of the wind. I cleaned it out today and should be back in business tomorrow. I would really need to have everything cut for this summer/fall so I can assemble it before it moves too much (if it hasn't already!). I'll post some picture of my setup.
Nice to see a couple of New Brunswickers on here! Moving back there this spring and setting up my timberframed shop.
I'm also right at the early stages of designing a small, off-grid timberframe for someone in the Sussex area which is exciting.
Project looks great Tim, looking forward to more updates.
B
... Yup..un ptit francais de Richibucto haha.... i'll keep an eye out on your build and maybe visit someday for some up close timber framing tips..
@timberframe (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=23235), sounds interesting. Would be cool to see that once the project starts. Are you in the TF business?
@Vautour (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=43405) - moi je suis un ptit francais de Shediac :). Let me know if ever you want to take a look in person.
Who knew there would be timber frame enthusiasts in NB :)
Here are some pictures since my last update. I purchased a chain mortiser after my bent raising accident. Cut one post before the whole new house thing took all my time:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20181021_124754.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1551056825)
A big storm in October or November actually blew off my stack covers. I was able to dig out three of them. (December 2018 ):
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20181220_164416.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1551056752)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20181220_164604.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1551057003)
My build site, over the Christmas holidays:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20181228_140047.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1551056758)
Went down this Friday to plow out the road to the stacks and dig out around them. There was a good 2 feet of snow/ice build up.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20190222_163409.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1551056758)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20190222_170747.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1551056764)
...And, my setup in my new (to me) garage. Finally back at it!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20190223_131259.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1551056762)
Which brings me to a question. I am a little rusty since last fall. I started the layout on a post today, which is in the center bent. There is a small knot cluster and I don't know if it would be structurally better to have this located in the tie beam mortise (wedged half-dovetail), or just above it (regarding the outwards thrust the rafter plate will apply to the top of the post).
This might be hard to illustrate. The ruler is the top angle of the mortise, and the pencil is the bottom. The knots I am referring to are in between. The top shoulder of the post is about 1 foot to the right of the ruler.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20190224_193910.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1551057627)
You can (barely) make out the mortise layout below. In this picture, I am looking towards the top of the post. Would these knots be better off just above the ruler (4" is all I have for excess) or are they OK where they are now? I am probably over thinking this...
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20190224_193832.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1551057669)
Thanks!
For those knots, you're probably overthinking it, but, it is good to be thinking like that. Usually it is not a good idea to locate a mortise where there are knots. The slope of grain around a knot is already weakening the timber, then if you chop out a bunch of fiber to create a mortise it compounds the problem. It is best to have clear grain between the tie and thrust so do think just like you are when laying out the timber, flip it end for end, slide around, if square rotae it and think about stress and grain, keep thinking like you are. This is one reason it doesn't hurt to have well overlength timbers, it lets you shift layout better.
Your pics remind me of a job we were on in N WI. I left in late fall after finishing the house and came back in early spring to do the sauna and inside work. Took 2 days to find one of my piles :D
Thanks Don! We had a weird winter here with lots of snow, followed by mild temperature and rain, then back to -20C. My nice timber stacks have taken on a bit of a patina ;).
Finally making sawdust again!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20190303_123412.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1552014146)
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The wood has started drying and checking, making slightly rounded reference faces. I planed these down slightly so my square could register without teetering. Next time, I will plane down the humps where the joints will be before doing the layout, that way my mortiser will be perpendicular to the face. I had to shim the mortiser because of the rounding caused by the checks.
Does anyone have tips to deal with this rounding?
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... Hi Tim... nice work... hoping to see your work sometime in the near future. thumbs-up
Thanks Vautour. I'm actually working out of my garage in Moncton. Let me know if you want to stop by some time, although I only have one post complete here so far. It would be probably more informative to see the different pieces once I get to them later this Spring/Summer. I plan to keep bringing a few timbers home to work on, that way I can put time on it during the week.
Here are some more progress pictures. I am trying to use my power tools to cut to the line and limit hand tools to cleanup and where necessary in order to speed things up.
Any tips on how to cut the wedged half-dovetail mortises in the post? What is taking me the longest is chiseling out the top and bottom slopes. Taking my time not to undercut them. There must be a faster way?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20190308_211216.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1552526785)
Made a router jig to cut the housing (inspiration from Nick Fouch):
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20190309_162721.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1552526855)
First in-garage post complete!
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"Any tips on how to cut the wedged half-dovetail mortises in the post? What is taking me the longest is chiseling out the top and bottom slopes. Taking my time not to undercut them. There must be a faster way?"
I struggled with this on my frame. I ended up using a chainsaw to carefully reach up in there to get some of the wood out. Worked ok, but you have be so careful not to mess up your pocket!!
Dakota - I would be too nervous to take off too much with the chainsaw. I might see if I can use the chain mortiser at an angle to rough it out.
The post I am working on now has some gross grain to it (particularly on one face). It also has indications of ring shake on the top. Any opinions on the preferred layout orientation in this case (a vs b)? The drawings show the tie beam mortise locations and the arrows show the axis the tie beam would be in (looking at the top end). I am afraid of the roof thrust splitting the post where the grain runs out (see tie beam mortise location A). I think this run out might just be the sapwood, but not sure. On the top end, the heart is centered with the rings evenly spaced. On the bottom, the heart is slightly off center and the rings aremuch denser on one side than the other. I think that is what is causing the cross grain pattern. Is the ring shake more of a concern? Grain slope is about 1 in 8 max, but more typically around 1 in 12 around the tie beam mortise. This is a corner post, so technically it would have to sustain half the thrust than the center posts will have to. I also have a rafter tie above this bent. Will probably fasten it to the rafter mechanically to counter tension on peg.
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Looking at the pictures, where you show the housing cut for A, what is that streak running down and slightly to the left? Is that punky wood (i.e. rotten)? IMHO, the ring shake (is that a crack or did you just sharpie it to make it stand out?) you show would be a deal breaker for me - this might make a smaller post or maybe just firewood.
The dark streaks are sapwood or reaction wood. It is sound, just darker. The shake line is something I drew in paint to show which ring plane. There is actually only a hairline crack about 3/4 inch long in the center of that drawn line, but when the wood dries maybe it will increase? I will probably need to get some spares at aome point but would like to use what I can if possible.
Update: I ended up using that last timber I wasn't sure about. Looks like the shake was minimal. I also took a drive out to a sawmill to get some extra 8x8s. These are spruce as they did not have pine. I will let these rest for a month or so before I use them for the remaining 3 posts.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20190329_160512.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1555682890)
I brought back the 8x10 plates home to start working on them. I am scarfing them together for total length of 20'. I have 3 white pine and 2 red pine (only need 4). The white pine are ok, but I'm not sure which to use for the red. One has many large-ish knots and the other one has one knot cluster and localized grain runount on the ends...I'll have to figure out which one to use. Can't keep getting spares :).
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Hello again,
I've made decent progress since this summer. Will hopefully be posting some pictures soon :). Still have a handfull of timbers to cut but the timing is right to start framing the floor (2x material).
I had helical anchors (screw piles) installed about three weeks ago. My question is wether I need to use pressure treated for the floor (beams and joists w/ hangers) or can I stick with regular s-p-f?
The lowest point would be about 18" off the ground. I don't expect it to get wet with the siding coming down over the beams.
Any concerns with PT if I plan on drilling a well at some point?
Thanks!
Tim
There is no prohibition on pt in the vicinity of a well that I've seen. You can look up the MSDS for the product you will be using and make that call for yourself. Read the label of what you will be using, there are several kinds of treated. I wouldn't build a spring box out of it but that isn't the same as a beam off the ground under a roof. If protected from wetting borate treatment would be fine.
An untreated joist needs to be at least a foot off the ground, a beam 18", otherwise it should be treated.
Thanks Don.
We started framing yesterday. Hope to have the floor done next weekend :).
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Greetings from another New Brunswicker. Im down here in Hampton. Just in the beginning stages of a smaller timber frame project - 12x16. Have almost all my timbers milled. White spruce cut off my own woodlot. Glad to see this post. You've answered a lot of questions I had in my mind. I'm trying to figure out the best way to do my mortices right now. Like you I only have a 1 1/2 " drill bit to start with. Glad to see you're using screw posts. I think I may do the same. Look forward to seeing your progress.
Hi Brent,
Sounds like a nice project. What are you building?
Here are some update pictures of this past summer's progress. Finished a few spruce posts, then pine top plates and tie beams. Had to use snap line rule for most since they and moving on me :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20190502_191249.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1580773874)
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It's been a great winter to keep working outside! Keep it up.
Good to see an update! Looking good.
B
Progress on the floor:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/43011/20200208_161342.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1582049529)
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Hi Tim... glade to see you back at it... keep the pictures coming, got the popcorn ready popcorn_smiley
Haven't given many updates lately. We raised the walls last weekend and the roof should be ready in 6 weeks or so.
Overall things went well, even though some of the timbers sat for a good year and a half after the joinery was cut.
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awesome job so far, just catching up! I see you have lots a help..bonus!
forgot to mention my camp is located on the Bartibog river...family homestead...
Sbishop
Looks great, following along.
Looks great Tim! Soon you will be installing the rafters and then work on enclosing it all in. Lots of work, I know! I've been at it myself since last February ('19), and this year I hope to have all the windows and door installed. Lots of work when you're by yourself. The light at the end of the tunnel is small, but will only get bigger as we forge ahead.
Below are photos that I've been taking along the way. Taking a course on how to build a timber frame, and not having the knowledge to finish it off are two different animals altogether! They don't teach you how to complete the frame once it's built. I have had to go on a wing and a prayer ideology on how to create an exterior wall while still being able to see all the main frame timbers on the interior. So far, so good. But it is time consuming. It's a 14'X18' structure and I really had of wished I went 16'X20 like we did on our course, but I thought that it would have been too big for just a sleep cabin. I was wrong!
At any rate, this structure is well insulated and the Silverboard around it is tighter that a frog's butt. There should be absolutely no air infiltration whatsoever. With the R-14 batt insulation and the R-7.5 Silverboard, I am around R-22 with an R-34 ceiling. Should keep me warm on a cold Northern Ontario winters night.
I will be following your build in the months ahead. Cheers!
(Modified)
I got the windows and a door installed this year ('20). A lot of setbacks due to the pandemic, but I still managed to get quite a bit done.
I got the door from a house demolition that I just so happened to be involved in (driving dump truck) and I managed to salvage it from the wrecking ball. It's a steel door with a triple glazed window insert. The door is heavy. I got a local door and window place to build me a door frame, as the one the door was on was too big for my application. The windows I ordered are triple glazed, as well. I know that it is overkill for a bunkie, but since I went through all the hassle of insulating this cabin to the nines and making it almost impervious to air infiltration, then why not spend the extra 15%? It only makes sense.
Next season, I am hoping to have it pretty much finished. I'm just trying to decide on what kind of exterior to go with. I would like something that is aesthetically pleasing, different and maintenance free. I'm getting too *DanG old to be staining every couple of years. I was looking into a cement board of some kind. I'm sure I will find the right product! Then there is just the interior to do. Vinyl click flooring, window trim and small stuff.
<(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53434/IMG_20190712_202034_hdr_edit.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1593992706)
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Quote from: CJ on July 05, 2020, 08:08:37 PM
Looks great Tim! Soon you will be installing the rafters and then work on enclosing it all in. Lots of work, I know! I've been at it myself since last February ('19), and this year I hope to have all the windows and door installed. Lots of work when you're by yourself. The light at the end of the tunnel is small, but will only get bigger as we forge ahead.
Below are photos that I've been taking along the way. Taking a course on how to build a timber frame, and not having the knowledge to finish it off are two different animals altogether! They don't teach you how to complete the frame once it's built. I have had to go on a wing and a prayer ideology on how to create an exterior wall while still being able to see all the main frame timbers on the interior. So far, so good. But it is time consuming. It's a 14'X18' structure and I really had of wished I went 16'X20 like we did on our course, but I thought that it would have been too big for just a sleep cabin. I was wrong!
At any rate, this structure is well insulated and the Silverboard around it is tighter that a frog's butt. There should be absolutely no air infiltration whatsoever. With the R-14 batt insulation and the R-7.5 Silverboard, I am around R-22 with an R-34 ceiling. Should keep me warm on a cold Northern Ontario winters night.
I will be following your build in the months ahead. Cheers!
(Modified)
I got the windows and a door installed this year ('20). A lot of setbacks due to the pandemic, but I still managed to get quite a bit done.
I got the door from a house demolition that I just so happened to be involved in (driving dump truck) and I managed to salvage it from the wrecking ball. It's a steel door with a triple glazed window insert. The door is heavy. I got a local door and window place to build me a door frame, as the one the door was on was too big for my application. The windows I ordered are triple glazed, as well. I know that it is overkill for a bunkie, but since I went through all the hassle of insulating this cabin to the nines and making it almost impervious to air infiltration, then why not spend the extra 15%? It only makes sense.
Next season, I am hoping to have it pretty much finished. I'm just trying to decide on what kind of exterior to go with. I would like something that is aesthetically pleasing, different and maintenance free. I'm getting too *DanG old to be staining every couple of years. I was looking into a cement board of some kind. I'm sure I will find the right product! Then there is just the interior to do. Vinyl click flooring, window trim and small stuff.
<(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/53434/IMG_20190712_202034_hdr_edit.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1593992706)
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Very nice CJ!
I've neglected the FF in the previous year. Thought I would post an update. We used a Gin Pole to raise the ridge beam in mid-march. Roof is planked. Just waiting on things to dry up to continue framing things in.
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Welcome back Tim.... was waiting on news from you on your progress.... MAN that is a nice cabin and workmanship...nice work... keep them pics coming.
Can't wait to see what this is going to look like at completion time! What a great design and different from the standard TF designs. Is it your own? What are the sizes of your timbers? 10"X10"? It's a lot of work, especially when you are going at it yourself like I have.
This is my first build of any kind, let alone a timber frame. Keep the pictures coming when you get an opportunity. I have had some setbacks because of hip replacement and now an aging mother who is hospital and may not come out, at least alive. So that has hindered my progress. I am hoping to get the exterior sided by the end of this season, so that would be a victory.
Keep forging on sir! You're doing great. Cheers from Sudbury.
Photos below are somewhat distorted from the camera setting, but you get the gist of it. I just have to figure out a ladder/stair system that is code and not too intrusive in taking up space. All ideas are welcome.
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Thanks Vautour and CJ!
The design is a mix of the Sobon and Shelter Institute style, with the added dormer. The dormer addition came late, so I had to come up with non TF standard ways to construct it. Posts are 8x8, tie beams 8x10 and ridge 8x12. Nice progress on you project!
Hope things are OK with your mother, CJ.
Started framing in front and back porch. Hope to cover the roof proper by winter.
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This place is going to look so cool regardless of the dormers not being TF construction. Incorporate conventional with non-conventional. Siding ideas??
Not sure for siding yet. Am at the insulation stage and not sure how much is required. Using exterior rigid eps foam.
Weather would be like northern Maine. Thinking R10-15 for walls and R20-30 for roof...not cheap.
Local recommendation for homes is R22 walls and R30 cathedral ceiling, R50 roof. With a wood stove in a small cabin, can't see it getting too cold
Any thoughts FF people?
My walls are of 2X4 construction, so I used Ruxol R14 batt insulation and then installed 1 1/2" Silverboard over top of that which provides an additional R-11 factor, so that is more than enough for the walls. Not sure what your walls are 2X6 or 2X4, but you could go with the same Ruxol that I used and Silverboard. Keep in mind that you will have a vapour barrier too, so there will be zero air infiltration if you seal it up good and tight with Tuck Tape, especially around the windows. Speaking of windows, I went with triple pane because; 1) provide better R value that two, 2) they dampen out the noise, so it's super quiet, 3) the cost differential was only 15% more, so why not pay the extra? Right?
My roof is three layers of dense foam board. Two layers of 2" (R-12 each) and a third layer of 1 1/2" (9) for a total of R-33.
I guarantee that I will be able to heat that place with a candle when it's all completed.
I sided my place with Canexel UltraPlank. Pricey, but a good product compared to vinyl siding and basic wood that will have to be treated and maintained every few years.