Sawing 30' beams

[Gilman]

I'm looking into production sawing long 12" x 12" beams for a local sawmill.  They will all be between 25' to 45' long.

I was wondering if any of you have done this type of work.  

[Tom]

I've cut some 25' stuff but haven't done anything any longer.   It is a chore on a mill with hydraulic or electric feed because you are tied to the feed mechanism.  I've given it some thought before and my opinion is ..... :D..........

This would be a great application for a push mill like Wood MIzer's LT15 or Tiimber King's 1220.  Those mills can be set up at ground level (does away with a lot of log handling) and the head of the mill is tied to nothing but the bed rails.  All you have to do is build bed rails in front of it and you can push the head all the way around the world if you wanted.  Sometimes Bigger isn't necessarily Better. :D

Becase they are manual, bottom-line (not inferior) mills they are a lot cheaper than the bigger mills that are designed to cut more boards quicker.

If you have one, you are in business.  If you have one of the bigger mills, then you have a bunch of engineering and fabricating to do. :D

[Minnesota_boy]

I've cut a whack of 8X8 from 22 to 32 feet long.  The problem I see with 12X12 is handling the weight to get them on the mill, getting them turned, and getting them off again.

[Ianab]

A while back the Peterson guys posted some pics of sawing (I think ) some 60 ft logs for ship masts. As Tom suggested the clever part was the manual mill with an extreme track extension laying on the ground. The only tricky part would be handling the log. Maybe a tractor / loader hydralic grapple to load / turn the log and remove the beam once it's cut?

I expect if I set up my mill around a 45ft+ log my usual offloaders would run for the hills  :D

[Gilman]

I have a WM 40 Super.  So I'd be getting the 24' bed extension.  I was thinking about building a I beam loading deck.

[RacinRex]

If the market is solid and going to be there for a while for something like that perhaps buying an LT15 or similar manual model just for doing those beams is in line. With the investement and then the cost (time) to setup for the job each time between other custom jobs... wouldn't it be easier (in a perfect world) to just walk over and throw the cover off from the LT15 and work it for a day without ever changing a setup...  walk back to your 40 Super and go back to what you were doing?

I don't know, I'm young and don't know much but I'm trying to think.  ;)

[Minnesota_boy]

RacinRex,
Can I come watch you turn the cants of a 30 foot log that can make a 12X12 on the manual mill without a log turner?  The log turner on my LT-40 will usually turn the 32 foot logs I get, but now and then I have to help it a bit with the cant hook.

[Tom]

Eat mo' GRITS ! :D

[RacinRex]

I'll tell ya what... My father in-law watched as I turned a 20' log a few times and ended up with a 16"x16" cant when it came square. I believe if you do the math you'll find the volume of that cant was more than that of a 12x12" 30'. This was by myself... With two off bearers of my choice I could certianly do such a job, for the next few years anyways. :-)

Being 26 yrs of age and a 6'1", 240lb farmboy helped when I was moving this.

TOOO FUNNY MR. TOM  :D :D :D  

[ARKANSAWYER]

   Cut a few big long sticks on Wanda with her bed extension on.  With long large logs I put the butt to the front so I and shave off all the short boards and the hydralics will still flip it over.  If I have to adjust for taper I use the tractor that loaded the log to lift it up and shim with boards and wedges.  A 12x12x30 will weigh about 1,800 lbs so a loader will be needed for off loading as will as loading.   I have done several 6x12x30's and it takes about a 15 inch log to produce and it is something to move around.  It takes longer to saw then you think and there is the side wood and slabs that need taking care of.  I charge extra for long stuff and there is a hefty set up fee if I take the extension on the road.  Takes about 45 min with mods to set up and 20 to get Wanda road ready again.
ARKANSAWYER

[Gilman]

Thanks for all the input.  I would be at the customer's location for months, possibly over a year.  I'll try and meet with him again tomorrow and get a few more details like support equipment.

[Vermonter]

I just milled 6-30' 8"x 8" and 10 20' two weeks ago.  It takes a very nice log to get that kind of length, it was the nicest pile of spruce I have ever seen.  I also pulled 2" x 8" from the edges of the log, boxing the heart for the beams.  I borrowed a set of tracks from another Peterson owner, and set them up "lo-lo.  Setup took extra time.  When I released the beam, I let it stay in place and then made the last vertical cuts before moving the beam.  They weighed a lot less than I had anticipated, and we moved them with a loader.  By cutting the vertical cuts before moving the cant, the log didn't move.  I then moved the last slab to the side and reloaded it when I flattened the next log.  I'm digitizing some photos this week, I'll try to post them when I get a chance.
BTW, three of us set up on Saturday morning, finished Sunday at 4:00pm.  We cut about 1600bdft on Saturday, and 2100bdft on Sunday.  Those beams really add up quick.

[Carl_Peterson]

Hello Gilman,

A couple of months ago I cut two 50' beams for the New Zealand Maratime Museum to be made into ships masts.  One was 10" X 10" and the other was 12 by 12.  This was done on a 10" Peterson manual mill with 27 hp Kohler motor.  The 10 by 10 was a piece of cake.  No trouble handling the log or the squared mast with a hefty forklift.  The 12 by 12 was a bit challenging.  I first had to take the top off the log, along with a very long 10 by 2 to flatten the log top.  I then took both sides off, including 2 inch stock to a depth of 10 inches.  This is where it got interesting.  We then had to lift and turn the log flat side down, carefully center the log on the skids, flatten the top with the blade in horizontal position to achieve the 12 inch depth thickness, and then saw off the "wings" with the vertically orientated blade.  In short, with the 10 inch mill I can cut four 10 by 10s in the time it takes to cut one 12 by 12.  Now, cutting 10 by 12 or up to 10 by 20 requires only a simple double cutting process (coming in from both sides), but the 12 by 12 exceeds the possible depth of the vertical cut on the Peterson.  Check out if your beam buyer can accept beams that are 10 by anything up to 20".  If so, the Peterson is your winner.  Once the log is placed on the skids there is no turning required until the finished timber is ready for removal.  

The added advantage with this mill is that it also makes an awsome production saw, and in spite of manual operation is quite easy to operate for extended periods.  Last year (at the age of 57) myself and one tailout person cut and tallied 5000 board foot of 6 by 1 1/2 macrocarpa in a private one day job after a show.  Mind you, I knew that I had done something at the end of the day, but my tailout man was a whole lot more tuckered out than I was.  Somebody's got to stack all that timber no matter what cuts it, manual or automatic!  So, don't think yer gonna get out of work by buying an automatic mill!  The operator may fill better at the end of the day, but not the stacker!

So, my advice to you is: you don't have to have two mills to do two jobs.  Get one mill that does both properly.

Carl Peterson

[Jim_Rogers]

Gilman:
You've already got a good mill in that LT 40 Super. Now if you get that job or deal, buy a 24' bed extension and have it set up as a trailer. That way you can move it from job to job in the future.
A fellow has one like that here in MA and he uses it for a trailer to deliver lumber when it's not hooked up to the mill.
He also added a another set of loader arms and home made hydraulics that ran on another battery down that end and it seemed to work ok for him.
Good luck and I hope you get the job.
Jim Rogers

[Gilman]

Thanks all, I appreciate your input.

Well, here goes... splash! I met with the mill manager today after doing my homework and will be starting Nov. 9th. The first order will be for 150 - 12 x 12 x 30' beams.  They'll do the loading & unloading, I'll trim the slabs down to 16' to go to their resaw.

There is a some what damaged WM 40 frame for sale in town.  I need to take some string, a level and a square and see how damaged it is.  I think it just the bunks but want to make sure the frame isn't twisted. If the frame is bent I can heat straighten it, but removing twists are out of my heat straightening skills.  If it is too damaged I'll have to go with a new bed extension.

I think my biggest drawback will be with the mill loading and unloading the logs.  If all goes well, I'd like to set the extension up with a set of loading arms and rolling toe boards.  I'd have them deck the logs and I'd offload the cants using the board return and rolling toe boards.

Any more advice would still be appreciated.

Oh, if they cause any equipment damage they will either repair it, or replace.

[TN_man]

Gilman, Congradulations on winning the work and good luck with the extension project. 8)

Carl Peterson,
How did you go about lining the log up to cut the "wings" off of the 12x12 and were you able to do it without leaving a line that needed to be sanded down later? Also, then were you able to assume that the other side was also lined up for the second cut? BTW, I was able to meet Craig and Chris last weekend and enjoyed our visit.   Jeff

[Minnesota_boy]

I had a set of stands made with rollers on top to bring the cants off the mill and onto the ground for the company to take away.  They want them in bundles of 10, with stickers between the two layers of 5 and I'm able to unload the cants and make up the bundles by myself.  I also have to cut the slabs and have bought a small saw to do just this job.  If you would like, I can send you some pictures of the roller stands and let you know how they work.  

[Jim_Rogers]

Gilman:
When I'm unloading a finished long beam of my mill and bed extension, I raise the cant up off the mill bed rails using the toe board rollers,  so that the fork lift will fit under the cant and not hit any part of the mill bed.
If you have only the mill toe board rollers and none on the bed extension you could create a temporary roller. And then lift your finished beam up with the end roller of the mill only, this will make it like a see-saw, and press down on the cant at the mill hitch end, lifting the far end up enough to slide a temporary roller onto a bed rail on the bed extension and then lower the cant onto it. This will hold the finished cant up enough for them to move it off the mill with a fork lift. Once the finished cant is removed you simply removed the temporary roller, and start a new log.
If you can envision what I mean.
Also, if you get this other frame and it doesn't have any toe board rollers you could have them load the logs with the butt end over the bed extension and do all your taper adjustments on the mill hitch end toe board roller.
I normally load all my logs with the small end of the log towards the hitch end of the mill for planning out what will be cut from the log.
I understand Arkansawyer's method of loading the butt end towards the hitch end when doing a extra long log that is longer than your mill, without an extension, and I agree with him that this method works. I personally haven't done that, yet. But I will use that method when I need to.
Good luck with your new job and let us know how it goes.
Jim Rogers

[Gilman]

Thanks for the input,

By what I've read, you can roll a 30' log iff you have the butt end on the main frame.  Since I don't yet have hydraulics on the bed extension I was think of the following.

 - Place the log butt end toward the operator
 - Place a riser of about 3 1/2" on the bunk at the small end of the log.  This will raise the pith of the small end of the log higher than the butt end.
 - Use the hydraulic toe boards on the main frame to adjust pith height.

Anyone try this?  If so, how did it work?

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Having never done anything over 24', I would be VERY interested in that LT40 bent frame. If you have to, cut it where it's bent and re-weld it. Use a tight string to get close and adjust yer bunks. It might have the rollers on the tilt toe boards. It might even have the hydraulics.   I can picture that being a slick set-up.

[Tom]

The only thing I have to say is  Be Careful.  An eight foot log will kill you.  A 40 foot log could turn you into a grease spot.  Logs don't even bounce, they just crush whatever is under them.  Please don't let it be your leg.

On the subject of log weight, I guess I have another thing to mention.  When you set up the mill, and especially the extension, Make sure of a firm foundation. Once the log is on the mill is no time to be trying to straighten the mill back up.

Good luck.  I sure want to see pictures.

[Gilman]

Tom,
I'll definitely keep that in mind.  I don't have a favorite leg or foot, I like them all equilly.  

Deadheader,
Nope, no toe boards or hydraulics.  I think they were stripped to be used on the 6 x 6 square tubing permanent frame the mill built.  I'll post some pictures of both setups once I'm on site.

I figure if my productivity is too slow I'll just work till the mill extension is paid off and move on.  You guys were right about the 6 months to start getting business.  I've had three potential customers stop by this week.  

I stopped by a Mighty Mite owner's place and talked to him for about an hour on Monday.  Wednesday he calls and says he has a customer that needs 20' beams and if I could saw them.  His Mighty Mite saws 16 or 18' max, can't remember.  It paid off to be friendly with my local competitors.  

[Bruce_A]

Gilman, can you tell me what size mighty mite your competitor has.  They are a great mill also.

[Gilman]

I don't know the sizes of the mighty mites.  It about a 1985?

[ElectricAl]

Gilman,

Good job landing the saw job. ;D

We sawed for 2 years in a loggers log yard. Inventory never got below 50,000'.

It was our choice what to saw. Picked 18" to 30" and let the rest get shipped out.

An order for some 30' White Oak came in and the logger wanted us to saw it on our LT40HD. I told him we were too busy making him money sawing Cherry.
Logger brought in another Standard LT40HD for the job. The plan was to use a log loader truck to move the long log back and forth to make the 12" x 12" x 30' stick.
The first one went pretty smooth. On the second one, they had two flat sides and were reloading for the third slab when the loader guy had a brain fart. A 20" thirty footer dropped about 2.5'  onto the WM.  
$4500 later they tried it again,         with a different loader guy.
Smooth sailing the rest of the way

[Larry]

I have sawed a lot of 12X12X16" blocking mostly burr oak and cottonwood.  Found out real fast that I needed 20" logs to get 4 clean faces due to sweep or oval shape.  Due to the weight and cost I tried to get shorter logs.

I can only dream of what it is like to get a clean 12X12 out of logs 30 feet long.  Setting up the first two cuts may take a little bit?  Wonder what the diameter of the butt will measure?  Little chainsaw work? ;D

Take plenty of pictures as this thread has all the makings of a good suspense thriller! and don't get hurt.

[JD350Cmark]

Gilman,

Congrats on landing your job.  Some business came my way last week about 7 months after I got my mill.  A guy down the road with a circle mill needs some 10 x 10 beams.  He can't cut them so he is bringing me cants - no bark, no rocks or dirt - just nice clean cants.  The largest cant so far was about 30" x 38", but most are in the 20 to 24" range.  Got another small job last week as well.  When it rains it pours...speaking of rain, I kinda wish I had a roof over the mill right now.  

Keep an eye out for your arms and legs.

[Gilman]

Thanks guys!

I've got the camera battery charging.  Once I start I'll post some photos.

I like that hidden circle saw business.  You get the cream of their jobs.  I'll definitely stop if I see another one setup. ;D

[Carl_Peterson]

Jeff,

Trimming off the first wing of the 50' 12x12 required a bit pf pushing around on the skids in order to line up with the bottom cut.  However, once the first wing was cut off accurately, I simply had to move the cutting head 12" across to line up the second "wing cut" perfectly.

The whole process took a bit of head scratching, and was probably a little harder than I first thought it would be.  Like, how do you move one end of a 50' log 1" without affecting the middle of the log somewhat?

Moral of the story?  Cutting long square beams over 10" can be done on the rare occassion with a Peterson 10" mill, but I'd push the mill a mile to cut 10 bys rather than 12 bys.

Carl Peterson

[Gilman]

DanG, DanG, DanG
Was going to buy a used LT40 frame from a local guy for about $1500.  Just called him and he'd traded the frame for pork stocks or something. DanG

Looks like my upfront investment is going to be a bit more than I had planned.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Ya snooze, ya lose  :: );D ;D  How many more a dem woims ya gotta grab to ante up for the new extenshun  : : :D :D

[Gilman]

 :D :D :D
Guess I had that one coming Deadheader  :D :D ;D

[Gilman]

Well, I rounded up a bunch of worms and headed over to WM Portland.  Ken, the manager, explained that unless those worms were flattened, dried and had some president's pictures printed on them, I wouldn't be paying with worms.  Well at least I tried Deadheader

Here's the 24' frame extension in WM's exterior wharehouse.


Loaded up and ready to move.


Home at last, now the work starts and of course it started to rain on the way home.  I guess I'll have to unlock the exterior shop.  ;)

[Fla._Deadheader]

   8)  Dat's Purty  8) 8)  Good luck wit dem beams. ;) ;D

[TN_man]

Looking good, Gilman 8)
Keep us informed on how the job is going and anything you learn that makes the job go better.
A couple of months back, I had a guy ask me for 20 6x6x20s. I told him that I could do it but was not sure on the price because I had never bought logs that long nor had cut them that long and did not know what all time would be involved. But I did give him a guesstiment and he said AAHH I can get some 20' treated poles from the COOP for 40$/piece. I just replied "good luck finding 20 straight ones that don't have too much taper in them". He said he would find someone else, but I have noticed that he has never started his building yet. :D
Keep up the good work, Jeff
Also-- thanks Carl for the reply

[Gilman]

Thanks fellas,
Here's the update.  I was supposed to start tomorrow, Tuesday, but I was at the hyraulic store for 3 1/2 hours today.  I just about went out of my mind.  Of course I forgot to bring the cel phone, at least I could have called Kathy at work and told someone I was going nuts.

Here's where I'm at. $3,600 for the extension, $950 in hydraulic hoses and one valve (need another $600 in valves), $950 for hydraulic toe boards, $250 for a used loader arm and another $ 100 for some used toe boards.
= $6,450.00  I'm sure it will pay off in the long run, but was it is currently a hit on the old poker funds kitty.

Here's the new frame brought in front of the shop.  Not much room living in the city.


Another view looking at the shop and house.


Well, I needed to add some mounts for hitching up the new loading arms. I really like this bandsaw.  I hardly ever use it but when I do, it's a must.


Didn't have any 1/4 x 3" flat bar so I had to use some 1/4 x 3 x 4 angle iron.  It should work just fine.


This saw is pretty cool for just under $1,000.  It's a radial bandsaw, thus you don't have to adjust your material supports, just pivot the head.


First bracket tacked in place.


Here's a automatic tapping machine, it can handle up to 1/4" in steel and 3/8" in plastic.  Super fast for tapping a hole.


Brackets in place.


Forgot to buy some orange paint.... Only had some primer.  Maybe next year?  ???

[customsawyer]

It all looks great Gilman. Bet you can't wait to get it going and get that purty orange paint covered with some saw dust. ;D

[Gilman]

This work stuff has effected my FF fun time. :'(   I ended up starting a day later than I'd planned on.  It took me 2 1/2 hours at the hydraulic store to get one valve and about 16 hoses and fittings.  I was going nuts by the time I left. >:( >:( >:(

This is a photo taken in the morning of the second day of cutting.  The first day we only got one beam cut due to setting up the machine in the morning and early afternoon.




This is a view of the companies setup.  I'll have to get a better picture of it.  The have a WM saw on a home built 6" x 6" steel frame. The saw head is next to the guy in the orange coat.


Here's how we load the logs.  I found it was easier on the mill to set the log into the loading arms.  That way the force is primarily directed down through the loading arm assembly.  We tried rolling the logs in but one bump and the mill was almost knocked out of alignment.









First full day of production (stack in the center)


Now that we've run the mill in this setup for a couple of days, I wish I'd gotten the LT70.  I can't dependable use the board return with the 40 super wit some of the bigger flitches.

[Jim_Rogers]

Gilman:
Looks good!
What size are those beams? 12x12 by what?
How many per day? (I know it's early yet, and you haven't worked out all the bugs).
Are they true? what I mean is the dimensions constant from one end to the other? if they are then you've got it aligned properly.
Just be careful letting him set them down onto the arms. If he drops them he could tip your mill over.
You need to create a log deck that is nearly as tall as your saw bed rails and then let him set them down onto the log deck, and then let the log loader arms pick them off the deck and load them onto your mill so you can control how fast they load.

Yes more pictures please.

About handling the bigger flitches, and the board return. I thought I read somewhere that you need to make sure you log ends are cut square to the board return pushes them straight.
Also, if you're not using these flitches full Lent you could cut them shorter before moving them off the top of the log. What I do is lift one end and place in a 1 1/2 x 1 1/2" x 18" block and cut the flitch to a shorter length. Using the block holds the flitch up so that the chain saw doesn't cut into the beam/log below. And having the cut piece up in the air makes it easier to grab and off load by hand.
What are you doing with these long flitches?

Jim Rogers

[Gilman]

12 x 12 x 30'

14 per day, my goal is 25  8)

Dimensions are within 1/32" throughout.

Currently I am shoving the flitches of to the ground by the loading arms.  Once there, they are cut to 14' & 16' to go to the resaw.  I was planning on using the board return to push the flitches back and buck them there.  They could also be stacked for a few logs and then hauled away, saving some forklift driving time.  Unfortunately some of the flitches are too heavy for the board return to push back.  Thus, I don't want a system that only works some of the time.  I think I might try making a roller table that is about 1' high off the ground.  Theses rollers would sit next to the loading arms and the helper could take his hookaroon and pull them out of the way.  This way logs could be decked and ready for me.  Nobody would need to get between the mill and the log deck and flitches could be bucked in batches.  The flitches and waiting for a log are the big time wasters right now.

If a log is real green and cuts good, I can cut 30' in less than a minute.  If the log turns good too the whole cutting process can be done in 8 minutes.  Boy would I like to be able to run like that all day.

[Furby]

Pretty Cool!  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

What are they doing with those beams???

[Gilman]

I'm not sure where they are going.  Some are being used in grand entrances for motels in Colorado and such.  I heard the market for large beams is California, Florida, NY and Colorado. Who whould of thunk it?

[Tom]

You might be surprised at the popularity of simulated timber frame homes in the Million to Three Million dollar range around here.   We could provide the beams from the local timber, and do.  But, It seems that people who are spending that kind of money want the best, and the best always seems to come from "somewhere else".  :D

I have a friend that turns wood bowls and will sell them from his shop here.  He also sells them to tourist shops in North Carolina. The people who buy them are, many times, on vacation from here and buy the thing to bring it back to Jacksonville.   They are proud of having a real Hillbilly bowl, not knowing that they could buy it locally for a lot less.  :D

We think it is funny. ;D

[Furby]

I've seen pics of some of those houses and from what I hear, California is the top of the market.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  They wood be. : They burn their houses down as fast as their "protected" timber.  : : ;)

[Gilman]

Deadheader,
I think they were trying to protect mice in California. I wonder if they made it?

Here's a log I'm glad I'm not working on.  They carved on it for 6 hours and still haven't finished the cut.  Hopefully they can get their first cut in the morning.



I didn't get a chance to take a photo with the sawyer on top of the log with the chainsaw. The woodmizer head is just to the left of the Cat loader.

[Gilman]

Here's a little update:

Needed an easier starting chainsaw for my dad.  I ended up getting the Stihl 361C.  The compression release is nice and that is why I chose that model, but the feature that I really like now is the handle brake.  It's a little hard to see but the "interlock" that you have to push down with your palm to be able to trigger the throttle is also a brake release.  If you let go of the handle the brake is engaged.  



Here's Larry scaling a log.  Those 50' logging tapes are really handy.


This is about a 24" x 28' log that is about to be turned into 4 - 6x8x28' beams.


The operator dropped this log to the ground twice trying to turn it.  He also broke the log turner in the process.  I'd fire him but I'd be out of work.


Down to a cant.  


Finished! 4 - 6x8x28' beams. In the back ground is the yard loader that brings us our logs. That thing gets your attention when it's moving around the yard.


Oops, almost forgot a production update. :-[
Friday we got our first 20 log day.  Actually two of the logs yielded a quantity of four logs so we really only cut 18, but I'm counting it as a 20 day.  Most of the logs were turned into two 6x8's.  The others were milled into 12 x 12 x 30's.  I'd really like a day of all 12 x 12's.  I bet we could cut 24 of those.  They also pay more.  8)

[D._Frederick]

Gilman,

What are you doing to make sure your blade is good enough to make it through a 28 ft beam? Are you constanly changing blades or do you "flying by the seat of your pants" and hope that you will make it through a cut?

[Gilman]

I keep a close eye and ear on the mill.  Things I look for:

1) How the blade leaves the log.  (You can see and hear the difference if the blade doesn't leave the log straight.)

2) How much water I have to use to keep the blade cool (actually warm, I just don't want the blade up in the 300 degree range)  For adjusting water rate flow, I keep the lubmizer set to maximum pulse.  From there, I listen and watch the pressure gage.  If the pressure gage drops into the low yellow or gray, I turn the lube onto full until I either finish the cut or the blade cools enough.  The pressure gage is my primary indicator.

3) Quality of cut, did the blade wander? If so, did it wander around some feature in the log, or was there a cyclic pattern to the blade wandering.

4) The blade has been on for 3-5 logs and is still cutting good.  In this case, I'll feel the teeth to check for sharpness.

Worst case, I hope the blade wanders up and I'll come back with a fresh blade and recut that pass.

I'm cutting primarily 6x8x 28's and 12 x 12 x 30's.  The 6x8's can be cut 5 3/4" to 6" x 7 3/4" to 8".  My default pattern is 5 31/32" x 8".  That way I can come back with a 1/4" cut on two sides to hopefully make grade.

Funny thing is, I think I saw better when I'm irritated.  I tend to run the feed higher and get more yield per sharpening, which makes sense.

[WH_Conley]

How do you habdle slabs and lumber? At 30 ft they flop like wings don't they?

[Gilman]

Slabs are cut to 14' and moved to a slab pile(s) with the forklift.  Beams are moved with the forklift shown in the last picture posted.

[JD350Cmark]

Gilman,

You mentioned keeping your blade below 300 degrees..  How are ya measuring the temp?  ???

[Gilman]

I'm guessing on the 300 degrees.  At 212 degrees water boils and you will get steam.  At 300 degrees the boiling would be at a much higher rate.  I can watch the rate the coolant is boiling at the infeed blade guides.  The amount of steam along with the sound and the tension pressure gage are good indicators of how the blade is behaving on wide cuts.

Sawing these long beams has been a great learning experience on blade behavior.  Before, I was mostly sawing 8 to 10' hardwoods. In those you get started cutting, cut for a little bit and then think about returning the board and what your next cut will be.  On these long logs I have a good minute to two minutes to observe the blade and speculate on the blade behavior.

It's nice to be able to kind of sit back and think about what is going on with the saw.

[HUNTER700]

Hey Gilman, Pretty cool job with the beams. The 12x12x30' must really be something to see. Thanks for sharing the pictures. Let us know how the rest of the job goes.     Hunter700

[Rookie]

Nice work!!  I'm wondering what type of $$ you can get for a good 12X12X30?  And are you focusing on one species or several?  This is a very interesting topic, and I've enjoyed your story and pics!

[Bruce_A]

Gilman;  Made contact on that garbage loader. Must weigh somewhere between 6000 and 8000 pounds.  About 20' of reach from center of mast.  $2000.00 loaded on a truck. Need more info or want a look, let me know.   Bruce

[Duncan]

Gillman,

It really looks like you are working the unloader harder than you are.  I think you should let the old man run the mill and you unload the logs.

Just letting you know I'mm here  See ya next week. and keep a few logs for me.

KD

[woodrat]

Y'all got it easy with that big old bed extension!   ;) Its not so much fun cutting 28' timbers on a 21' mill! I did that for a customer in CA who really really REALLY wanted his 28' beams to come from his own trees. It involved cutting part way through and then using the rollers to move the log/cant back and forth. It was probably still cheaper for him than buying hte timber from somewhere else.

[Gilman]

I'm confident I wouldn't want to saw a 28' beam without the extension.  I would have tried it before I got the extension, but not now ;)

Here's a little background on our new member Duncan.  We've been friends since kindergarten.  He's been overseas in Taiwan for about four years (that about right Duncan?) and is now moving back to the states.  He's looking at getting a mill.  I advised him to start reading FF to learn about sawing.  Thanks to you guys, I can't think of a better class on learning to saw lumber.  Thanks FF and welcome Duncan.

Oh, one more thing.  Earlier I gave this long drawn out answer on making sure a blade was sharp enough to go thirty more feet.  I watched what I did and the answer is a lot simpler.  I try to change the blade before it's too late, otherwise, "poor on the water, slow down and grimace."

[Gilman]

Woodrat, I like your web page.  Looks like you've had your mill all over the NW.  You probably need a new set of tires for your mill.

If you're ever in the Vancouver area, give me a call.  My folks have a cabin in Long Beach.  I'll have to drive down on the WA side next time and see your setup (This is my small hint to be invited )

THIS WEEK'S UPDATE:
Beautiful sunny weather, NO logs :(

[woodrat]

I don't have much of a home setup right now. I was hoping to get a pad and a shed built up by my barn this last summer, and like so many things, it didn't happen. Now I am hoping to get it done this spring. Then I want to set my mill up stationary and focus more on selling nice interesting wood than on running all around doing little custom jobs.

I have been all over with the mill though, and I've get to meet a lot of different kinds of people and see a lot of people's homesteads. That part has been cool. You joke about my tires, but its true! The second to last time I went to CA for work, one of the trailer brake parts wore out, fell off and locked up that wheel at 65 MPH and before I could even think- boom, there goes the tire and fender bouncing down I-5. Luckily no one hit them. I got a used rim and tire at the next stop, saddled back up and went on. The next day, when I got to the end of the paved road, nine miles from the job, some yahoo runs me into the ditch, and blooey! there goes that tire again! and the rim! ...again! At that point, I just decided to keep going, since I had no spare, was waay out in the backcountry and couldn't even get a cell signal to call the customer. Nine miles on the back road riding right on the steel rim, boy was that loud! it was quite a sight too!

just got home again last week or so from another out of town job and this time it was a wheel bearing that had gone out, trashing the spindle too, so now I am idle, waiting for my new axle assembly to come in... you can't really hear or feel a trailer axle bearing the way you can if its on your truck. I never even knew it was going.

Anyway, you're welcome to come by anytime, hopefully by then I will have my gravelled mill site set up, and be sawing some nice locust or something. I'm right on hwy 4 just west of skamokawa proper.

 
Mark

[Gilman]

Nice tire story

[woodrat]

here's the rim after nine miles with no rubber.

http://www.redalderranch.com/pictures/bentrim.jpg

[Gilman]

   :D :D

[woodrat]

    yeah, that's what my client looked like when I rolled in ...

[Gilman]

Sawed a 9 x 13 x 30' beam w/ a 6' extension the other day (26' of bed).  I didn't use my 24' extension because it's 24' long, would require 2 more trips to deliver the extension and return it and wouldn't be fun to setup in someones field.  The photos were taken at the customer's field while sawing the beam.  See, there really is such a thing as a perfectly round and straight log.   :D

I mostly used Bibby's method but added one feature (Thanks Bibby for your detailed explaination on how to cut a beam over 20').  The beam was full sawn Free of Heart so the slabs were pretty thick, one over 12" thick.  Using wedges to lift the thick slabs for backing the blade out didn't appeal to me.  Below is shown the same method used but with a Boxed Heart beam.

On the first cut I raised the blade 1/2" - 3/4" higher than I wanted the finish cut.  Once I got to the end of the first cut ~24' down the log, peaveys were used to raise the slab.  Using the peaveys to raise the slab to back the blade up is quicker and easier than using wedges.  With the slab pried up, the blade was backed up ~4' and then a chainsaw was used to cut the slab off at the end of the cut.


Slab cut off with a chainsaw


Starting your cut 1/2" - 3/4" above your finish cut lets you cut the slab off with a chainsaw without worring about making a perfect cut and stopping prior to nicking the finished beam.



The log was then turned 90 degrees and the above process was repeated.  Once two 24' flat faces were done the 3'rd face was cut with the same process. 




The saw head was then backed up and the toe boards were fully raised.  The cant was cut at the finished height down 24' creating a 1/2" thick slab that the blade could easily back out of.  This 1/2" thick slab was cut off with a chainsaw and a scrap spacer under to make sure the beam didn't get damaged.  Kind of hard to see, but there is a finish cut ~20' long.


Once cut, the cant was pushed back far enough to finish the cut


On the 4th face, the 1/2" slab wasn't needed.  The slab was flexible enough to pry up with peaveys, add a scrap spacer, and cut with a chainsaw.

Back to the 1st face.  With the toe boards DOWN and the cant hanging over the far end of the mill a 1/2" thick slab cut was cut to 20'.  Then the 1/2" thick slab was cut off with a spacer.  The head was returned and raised, toe boards raised, can pushed back and then lowered to the bed.  Then the 1/2" slab cut was finished.  The last face was cut with the same method.

[Gilman]

The above beam was cut with the assistance of a front end bucket on a tractor.  Unfortunately the center of gravity was just past the second toe board. If there was a 3rd toe board on the extension, it would have been much easier.  Being able to cut 1 long beam with this method saved about 6 hours of work verses using the 24' extension.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Gilman
That's exactly how we sawed the 24' Beams for the loggin Boat, on our 16' mill bed.  Gotta be careful cuttin them slabs off with that chainsaw.

  We could'a sold them 24' long 2 X 8's for BIG bucks the very next day, If we hadda left 'em long.  : : :D :D

[Gilman]

Strange how it seems to work that way.   :-\