E-classic performance test

[Hackberry]

I've been burnning the E-classic for nine days now.  Last Sat. I thought it would be a good Idea to start keeping track of how much wood I burn and the Heating degree days.  The degree days are from the Twin Cities and I'm in the country 30 miles from the cities and run 8-10 degrees colder at night.

This is what I'm heating

1536 square foot shop 10' side walls.  Temp. inside is 68
2250 square foot main floor house with lots of big glass.  Temp. inside is 78
2250 square foot walkout basement.  Temp. inside is 72
80 Gal. side arm water heater.  Five people showering daily.  Temp. set at 125
All the buildings are heated with in floor.  50 plate exchanger in the shop and a 70 plate exchanger in the house.
The coldest morning we had last week was -10.  Heating degree days for the week were 352.  I burning Siberian Elm that is cut and split like you would for a fireplace.  It is well seasoned wood.  I have crates that I stack the wood in and they each hold .25 of a cord.  Last week I burned 7/8th's of one cord.  This week I'm burning larger splits up to 18" and some rounds up to 8"  I think the larger wood will last longer.  I have not had any bridging of wood and only got a one gal. pail of powder ash. I load the stove every 12 hours.   If anyone likes I will continue to post my results.  Thanks for all the info. on this great site.  Hackberry. 

[beenthere]

Hackberry
Good info to have. Keep it up, if you have the endurance. Always enjoy more information.  ;D ;D

I don't know how you can stand 78° in the house, but not a problem for me. 
Anything over 72 and I'm peeling off clothes. 64° is bedroom temp.

How much dry wood do you have for burning this winter?

We like pics of your set-up and the crate system you use.

[Hackberry]

Beenthere, The 78 is what the floor Temp is set at Act air Temp is 74. I love it and the family really like's it.  Last winter we had the main floor at 72 and with the insert burning the floors never cam on.  If it was not below 0 the air temp was 78 which drove everyone downstairs.  Gota love this burner.  P.S. I have about 25 cords ready to go for this season.  I will post some Pics. if someone can tell me how to do it. Thanks, Hackberry

[beenthere]

Hackberry
Sounds better  ;D ;D  I can put a shirt back on now..

Pics posting...click on the help? button above and dive into the photo posting subject. Any questions, give a shout. 
Main idea for me is to resize the photo that you want to post first to 500 max pixels on longest side. After that, and not before, save it to least compression for a file size that fits below the max of around 35 KB.

This file size is much better for those who have dial-up, and even then they have to wait a long time to load them (I almost remember those days...crs you know!)

[thecfarm]

That's a good idea Hackberry.I have a Heatmor and I've been burning green white pine in it since the heating season really kicked in.This is wood that get cuts one week and burned a week later.I feel dead standing pine last longer than the green stuff does.Has to get the moisture out of it to make heat.I'm clearing out an old grown up pasture and this is all pasture pine as I call it. Goes up 8-10 feet than crotches out at least 2 times times.Than the 8-10 feet I just mentioned will probably have a sweep in it too.Was thinking about a load of pulp,but thought I would put it through the OWB.But it's better than putting it into the brush pile.I'm not keeping as good records as you,but I bet I burned 2 cords of pine all ready.We have had some temps in the single numbers but had some up in the 50's too.

[Hackberry]

Week two update.  It was colder this week with -15 and 374 Heating degree days, 22 more then last week.  I burned larger wood and it seems to have worked.  I did however, lower the temp. in the main floor to 76 and in the shop went to 66.  .75 of a cord burned this week.  I took some pics today of the cretes  and will post over Christmas.  Merry Christmas and stay warm, Hackberry

[woodmills1]

I bet I put a half cord in the last 2 days, but then I did som rough calculations on my heat loss and on our coldest windy days I bet my house demands 1/2 a cord(of pine) a day. :P

[Hackberry]

Week Three Update.  A colder week three -18 was the low, 40 was the high.  Gotta love Minnesota.  394 Degree Days 20 more then last week and 42 more then week one.  .75 cords burned this week.  I lowered the temp in the shop to 63. In doing a little math, looks like I'll burn 12-15 cords by May 1 which will be my last day burning.  I need to get my hands on some Red Oak.  I'm not able to get pics to the gallery yet, dial up stinks.  Happy New Year, Hackberry

[Hackberry]

 





                 I  finely got the pictures to post. These are the creat's I'm using.  They hold .25 of a cord when full.  And a picture of my wood shed.  Happy New Year,  Hackberry

[beenthere]

Hackberry
Thanks for the pics.

THAT is a very impressive woodshed.. WOW!!!

I be jealous. 
;D ;D

[Radar67]

What size is that building? Was it a greenhouse, or one of the agricultural hoop buildings?

My wife would never find me if I had one of those.  :D

[Hackberry]

I am very sad to say it's a greehouse.  We used to grow tons of plants in their. Lots of $$$$ at one time but the Big Box stores with the crap they sell put us under in that part of our business plan.  Please buy local people from the small guys.  That's how America was built.  The building is 144' long and 30'wide.  It has roll up sides to vent and gets to 130 in the summer , lets me season wood in half the time.  I wish I was still growing plants in there.  But I have lots of dry wood!  Best of Luck Hackberry!

[Hackberry]

Week Four Update


Week four was much like week three. 391 degree days vs 394.  .75 of a cord Siberian Elm.  When I compare the heat values of Siberian Elm and Red Oak with the data I have I would only be burnning .55 of a cord of Red Oak vs .75 of Elm for the week.  Time to start scouting for Red Oak.  Go Vikes!!  Hackberry

[wi woodcutter]

Hackberry- great updates I'm looking at a E-Classic so this info is great.

I always try to buy local! I hate the big box stores! I'll drive 20 miles out of the way not to shop at the big box.

[terra8186]

I am just wondering why you split all of the wood or do you buy it from somebody.  I have a central boiler and I cut my wood in 3'-4' pieces and I don't split them.  The larger stuff, I cut in liftable logs.

[Hackberry]

Terra, We cut and split our wood because it seasons faster, it's easy to work with for the wife and kids and the E-Classic's firebox is only 30" deep.  It's more work but it's worth it for us.  What unit are you burnning.  Hackberry

[terra8186]

<What unit are you burnning>

I am burning a central boiler 6048.  I have had it for 3 years. 

Your posts about your shop temperature's make me laugh.  When I started, I was heating my garage to 50, and I was heating my 2 shops to 50.  Since then I don't turn the heaters on unless I am out there.

My first year I ran out of wood in February.  That summer I cut enough wood for 2 years.  I have a 2 year supply for this year too.  Just in Case.

How do you like your boiler? 

[Hackberry]

Terra, I love this boiler thanks to the people on this forum that helped me  with the learning curve.  It's not even close to burning a 6048.  Lots of things to learn.  I have two buddies burning 6048's and they love them as well but burn more wood then I do.  I hope my reply will be the same after a few years.  Your 6048 is tried and true.  Hackberry

[Hackberry]

Week 5 Update


A warmer week 5.  322 degree days Vs 391 last week.  .65 of a cord burned.  I lowered the boiler to 180 vs 185.  I lost a fire brick in the reaction chamber last Sunday, it was laying on the floor under the ash.  I cleaned it up and used black rtv on it and stuck it back up.  As of this morning it's still holding.  Next week looks like it will be our coldest week yet.  Hackberry

[Max sawdust]

Hi,
Considering installing a boiler within the next year.  When you talk wood consumption in cords what do you mean ??? 
PULP (4'x4'x8' )
or
FACE (16"x4'x8')

.65 pulp cord in a day sounds like an awfull lot of wood

[Hackberry]

Max Sawdust,

4'x4'x8' are the cords I'm burning.  .65 of a cord was for 7 days not one day.  Hope this helps you out.
Hackberry     

                   

[ronwood]

Max sawdust,

From Hackberry post it appears to be .65 cord for one week.
Ron

[Hackberry]

Week Six Update:

Holy Cow, it was a very cold week here.  94 straight hours below 0.  4 mornings with lows of -29 to -32.  We did not have too much wind so that was a blessing.  470 Heating Degree Days this week.  The e-classic worked great and kept up with everything I asked it to do.  One cord of S. Elm burned this week.  I had to adjust my load times to every 11 hours instead of every 12-13.  I lowered the boiler temp. to 180 and the shop went to 58.

For comparison:  A friend of mine is burning a 6048 in a home that is one year old, he has about the same heating demand as I do with 3 less people taking showers.  I talked to him last night and he said that this week he was loading the 6048 2.5 times in 24 hours.  The 6048 holds 2.2 cubic yards of wood and the e-classic holds .97 cubic yards.  This tells me that he is burning more than twice the wood that I am.  Does this seem right?  'Til next week, Hackberry

[DouginUtah]

Hackberry,

I'm curious as to how you come up with the degree days you post. Is this your personal calculation or do you get it off a web site?  ???

If web, is it national so that I could also get the numbers for my area? Link?

[beenthere]

Doug
Google "degree days (your city)" and see if there are sites that provide degree days for you.

Get them here, and reports 74 degree days for yesterday, as an example.

http://www.wunderground.com/US/WI/Madison.html

[terra8186]

<For comparison:  A friend of mine is burning a 6048 in a home that is one year old, he has about the same heating demand as I do with 3 less people taking showers.  I talked to him last night and he said that this week he was loading the 6048 2.5 times in 24 hours.  The 6048 holds 2.2 cubic yards of wood and the e-classic holds .97 cubic yards.  This tells me that he is burning more than twice the wood that I am.  Does this seem right?  'Til next week, Hackberry>

I have been burning for a 6048 for 3 years so I have a little experience with this boiler.  The 6048 is 4' deep and loading too capacity is a little difficult.  Loading the back presents a problem because if one log doesn't go in right you can't reach your hand in and readjust it.

I also find that if you load it carefully and load the back and then start with the front, the wood doesn't last  twice as long as if I just load the front.  I think sometimes that a piece of wood will only last in the boiler a certain amount of time.  Any excess wood you through in the boiler is just wasted with heat out the top.

[DouginUtah]

beenthere,

Thanks for the help. I had looked on Google but hadn't gone deep enough. Now I realize it is a day-by-day number which has to be totaled for the week.

We are running anywhere from 30 to 65 degree days here.

[Hackberry]

Week 7 Update:


A warmer week 7 with 366 Heating Degree Days for the week.  .70 of a cord of S. Elm burned this week.  I get my Degree Days from the Pioneer Press.  Their temps. are taken at M.S.P. Airport 30 miles from me.  Our temps. run 8-12 degrees colder at night then they report.  I got my hands on some Red Oak last week.  I cut, spit it and got it under cover for next season.  I can't wait to try it!

Till next week, Hackberry

[Hackberry]

Week 8 Update


A little colder this week then last.  371 Heating Degrees for the week.  .75 of a cord of S. Elm burned this week.  Along with the cold nights we have had this month the daytime high has not been above 32 degrees for 33 days.  It looks like that will end today as it's 31 right now and it's 11:00 am.



Till next week, Hackberry

[trebor64]

Hackberry- I take for granted that a full cord is 128ft³, so .75 would be 96ft³ so about 14ft³ per day. Considering the 25ft³ of the e-classic firebox, that means you load about half of the firebox per day for your need. Impressive! Good job. Hopefully I'll optimize my setup and know how to that point. Long road though  :-[ from my 2 full loads a day. (50ft³)

[redgator]

Do any of you guys out there have any experience with e-classic performance in a somewhat more moderate climate than Minnesota, Vermont, or Maine?  We're in central Missouri, about as far North as northern Virginia, and are looking into putting in an e-classic since we have access to plenty of wood.  Thanks.

[mikey]

redgator,
I live just east of Des Moines Ia and have had my classic up & running for 5 weeks now. yesterday hit near 50 degrees and I only filled it once , I am heating 2 houses & a 1200 sq. ft. shop, one house is an old farm house built in the 1800's
mike

[JJ]

Hi redgatgor,
I found my e-classic would go out on 40-50F days, but the dual fual model has pulse air which would keep stove lit, even without oil buner.

If your local regulations allow, unless you want to spring extra $2K for the dual fuel model; go with the 6048.
The e-classic is not very forgiving on wood quality unless very cold (keeping  blower on all time), and then you waste lots of wood drying out the load.

In Maine, I have no choice other than select stove meeting EPA 2010 emmisions standard ( these will likely be postponed by rest of USA; like auto emmision standards )

         JJ

[Hackberry]

Week Nine Update:


Week nine had higher Heating Degree days then the last two weeks.  390 Heating Degree days this week, yet I burned less wood. .67 of a cord of S. Elm.  We had 3 days above 32 this week.  At those temps. the E-classic does not burn more then a few sticks in 12 hrs time.  I'm going to put the paper clip in when it warms up a bit more.
I lost two bricks in the R. chamber this week.  Waiting to hear from CB on what to do?  Spring is just around the corner.

Till next week,

Hackberry

[JJ]

Last week with temp around 10F, and forcast below 0, I relight the e-classic with wood I dry out when stove was idle.

Wow, what a diffrence dried wood makes.
I loaded it up with red large oak I cut up, which was on ground for about 10 years as log.
All bark was gone, and appeared to be dry when I cut it; but when I tried to burn it in the e-classic, It put my stove out (pretty waterlogged).

After 2 days in stove @155F; the oak wood is all weather cracked and bone dry.  I did need to have blower in stove running on low, with bypass door open while drying, to get rid of the steam.

Anyway I load stove up, and running for 12h with outside temp -6, and my supprise is stove still 1/3 full of wood when I reload.  Ususally stove would be nearly out, with only buired coals remaining.
After several 12h loads, same thing (1/4 - 1/3 stove wood remaining).  Also keeping temp much better, with only few times on high burn, which is usually after loading.

Seems to me I burned a lot of wood before, drying it out, as I was mixing in some green.

Now outside temp is 45F; so I let stove go out to dry out rest of my oak.

             JJ

[stumper]

Hackberry, Thanks for the great data.  Your numbers seem to be consistant with my rough estimates, adjusting for the relative heating loads.  

I have to ask what you do for work.  Your detailed approach leads me to beleive you would make a good engineer.

[DouginUtah]

Hackberry piqued my interest in heating degree days and I went so far as to create an Excel spreadsheet which I can use to keep track of them. Also cooling degree days. (This relates to another subject on which I have posted about how much my gas bill has been this winter ($5.50 per month). In one week I will get my February bill. I'll post here when I get it.)

I'm not an Excel master (basically a novice user), but I do work with Excel projects just to increase my ability to do something when I need it.

I think someone here put me onto www.accuweather.com and that is where I get my temperature data. You can enter your town and it will give the temperature information—but it only goes back one month.

So, I am attaching my spreadsheet (Excel2000DegreeDays.xls – 87 KB.). You can download it by clicking on the file below. The sheets are protected except for high and low temperatures, but it can be unlocked—no password.

[Hackberry]

Week 10 Update:

It was a very warm week here in Minnesota.  234 Heating Degree Days this week.  This is the warmest week I've had since burning the E-Classic.  1/2 of a cord of S. Elm burned this week.  So far for the 10 weeks of burning I've gone through 71/2 cords.  In that time their has been a total of 3634 Heating degree days, thats one cord per 484 Degree Days.  My heating season runs from mid Oct. through mid. April.  With a 117 year average of 6830 Degree Days in this time frame.  I should use about 14 cords in next years heating season.  For this year I'm putting my number at 10.5-11.0 cords.  With Red Oak the numbers would be more like 9.5 cords next season and 7.5 for this season.  I think these numbers are great when you look at my heating demand.

Till Next Week!  Hackberry

[DouginUtah]

Just an update on my natural gas bill (Jan 10 to Feb 10). It was again $5.50.   8)  ;D

However, I have been reading my meter every day and they misread it again. It really was 35 and they read it as 28. (cc)

So my bill should have been $10.67.  :D

Hackberry, I hope you don't mind my hitchin a ride on your thread. 

[Hackberry]

Week 11 Update:

Week 11 was the second warmest week since burning the E-Classic.  This week I burned .60 of a cord of S.Elm.  That puts me at a total of 8.1 cords since the 6th of December.  I stopped over at my dealers place yesterday and he told me that he's gone through 17-18 cords of Red Oak in the same amount of time in his 6048 and has a little less demand then I do.  His wood is not even close to being as dry as mine, thats why he's going through so much.
He had a new E-Classic in his shop and their is no fire brick on the sides, no other changes that I could see.  He also had a new 6048 in the shop.  The new ones are a little nicer to look at and the fire box is now 4" longer to hold even more wood.

I should post what my E-Classic is replacing:  This is a 5 year average.  1650 gallons of L.P. and 3-4 cords of wood burned in a insert.  We do keep things much warmer now though.

Till next week.  Hackberry

[rondojod]

To DouginUtah,

I assume that you are talking about the dual fuel E-classic and what exactly are you using the gas for? I am new to this forum and I have just put in a dual fuel model after upgrading from wood only but haven't yet hooked up gas. Do you have any idea what wood to gas ratio is?

[DouginUtah]

Rondojod,

By posting in this thread I guess I have mislead you. I got in here because I was interested in the degree days Hackberry was discussing. I created an Excel spreadsheet and then just stuck around to say that my natural gas bill--NO OWB--is pretty low for heating 2580 sq. ft.

Natural gas is the only fuel I use for heat.

Welcome to the forum.

[Hackberry]

Week 12 Update:


Week 12 was a colder week then week 11 yet I burned less wood.  1/2 a cord of S.Elm for the week.  A total of 332 Heating Degree Days for the week.  We had a very sunny week here and the way my house sits, big glass to the south, I have little to no call for heat when it's sunny out this late in the season.

Till next week, Hackberry

[Hackberry]

Week 13 Update:

Week 13 was a warmer week then week 12.  297 Heating Degree Days for the week.  I burned 1/2 a cord of S. Elm for the week.  Total burned since Dec. 5th 9.1 cords.

Till next week, Hackberry

[Hackberry]

Week 14 Update:

Week 14 was a little colder then last week.  309 Heating Degree Days for the week.  .55 of a cord of S. Elm burned this week.  I think I'll have to install the paper clip this week.  Temps. are going to be in the low 50's.

Till next week.  Hackberry

[leeallen]

Hackberry - talk to me about the paper clip??? Do you place that in the upper selenoid to increase air flow and decrease creosote build up - especially during warmer weather.

[Hackberry]

leeallen,

The paper clip trick is to increase air flow so the fire does not go out on warmer days.  Check out whodoctors post, E-classic up and running in central Mass. go to page 4.  We had 67 degrees yesterday and my fire keep going without the paper clip.  I'm not going to install till my fire goes out.  Good Luck!

Hackberry

[Hackberry]

Week 15 Update:

Week 15 was the warmest week since burning the E.  Two days in the mid 60's and 4 nights in the low 20's.
166 Heating Degree Days for the week.  1/3 of a cord of S. Elm burned this week.  I have not lost the fire yet so no paper clip.  I'm trying to figure out if it will be worth it to burn all summer for my DHW.  If I can get her dialed in to about 1/2 a cord per month I'll go for it.

Till next week,  Hackberry

[Hackberry]

Week 16  Update:


Week 16 was a warm week.  175 Heating Degree Days for the week.  .45 of a cord of S. Elm burned this week.  As most of you know my Fusion Chamber ruptured last week and as a result about half of the flames and gasses are getting down into the Reaction Chamber.  Thus the reason for the high wood use.  It looks like Thursday is the day for the replacement.  The unit is keeping up with temp. but I know now it would not if it was cold out -0 or more.  I'm sending pics to trebor64 so he can post.  Thanks trebor.

Till next week,

Hackberry

[trebor64]

Hi all,

Posting Hackberry's rupture pictures. I'm also adding a picture of my fusion chamber's door. As you can notice, the insulation is wavering a lot.... not sure this is normal.

Cheers! /Trebor

Fusion Chamber's rupture 1


Fusion Chamber's rupture 2


Fusion chamber's door

[MudBud]

UUUUmmmmm, that is not good!!!! I can't wait to hear what they plan on doing about both of these.  Do you realize how hot you have to get the reaction chamber to do warping damage like that?  Maybe they should use AR plate instead of mild steel.  We use it in our grinding mills with temps in the 1200 degrees plus with no warping.

[mikey]

My reaction chamber door looks just like that also, let me know if CB does anything about it for you
Mikey

[leeallen]

My reaction chamber door looks like the one in the picture as well.

[JJ]

Hi,
what did Hackberry's door look like?

       JJ

[antos_ketcham]

My door is starting to do that too. Also my firebox door. My dealer says these are wear items that take high heat and are designed to be replaced easily. That said, no one should have to replace these every heating season. Anyone planning on calling CB about this?

Pete

[terra8186]

I have a 6048 and my door looks similar.  My dealer told me that would happen and I haven't given it a second thought.  I have no plans of replacing mine.  In my opinion, the other items Central Boiler should stand behind.

[Hackberry]

Week 17 Update:

Week 17 was a bit colder then week 16.  202 Heating Degree Days for the week.  1/2 of a cord of S. Elm burned this week.  We need to put a * by the last two weeks for the ruptured Fusion chamber.  The fix was made on Thursday.  Trebor64 started a new post that has pics and how to install if you have not viewed it yet.  My total wood use since Dec. 5 is 11 cords.

Till next week,

Hackberry

[antos_ketcham]

Just noticed my fusion reactor is ruptured to. I can't see it from the top, but I can see it when I look into the reaction chamber. Bummer. I am curious why this would impact performance. I will be calling CB tomorrow for a replacement and asking for one that is stronger than the original.

Pete

[Hackberry]

Week 18 Update:

It's good to be back up and running right.  178 Heating Degree Days for the week.  Same as two weeks ago but burned almost half the wood.  1/4 cord of S. Elm burned this week.  Pete, the peformance is impacted greatly with a blown Fusion chamber.  Pull the bypass open, open the fire box door then take the reaction chamber door off.  Close the bypass and fire box door.  Look in the reaction chamber.  With a blown Fusion chamber not much flame or gas is forced down into the reaction chamber.  Thus all that energy is wasted.  After you get your new Fusion chamber do this test again and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Till next week,

Hackberry

[Hackberry]

Week 19 Update:

This will be my last update for the season.  I was going to try and burn for my DHW this summer, but with the dry spring and the fact that my boiler is feet away from a 40 year old Red Pine stand I'm shuting her down.

It's been fun keeping track of my wood use and the heating degree days.  I hope some of you found it helpful.

Week 19 had 88 Heating Degree Days.  For the week I burned 3/16th of a cord of S. Elm.  My guess would be it all went to the DHW.  Since Dec. 5th I've burned 11.5 cords and in that time there were 5,695 Heating Degree Days.

Lets all hope CB can get the bugs out this summer and get the fixes to us by fall.

Till next year (maybe)

Hackberry

[Hackberry]

Hi all,

It's been 9 months since my last post.  I'm not keeping track of Degree Days this year but wanted to give you a little up date on my E-Classic

Last year I was burning S. Elm most of the year.  When I look at my Data the numbers show my load times were 10.50 hrs-11.0 hrs at low temps of -20 to -30. and highs below 0.  With the same temp. ranges this year with split and dry Red Oak my load times are 17.5 hrs to 18.0 hrs and thats with the boiler set at 185 instead of 180 and my shop is at 63 not 58.  I love that RED Oak!

It looks like my reaction chamber is starting to fail again.  I'll bet that after this cold spell it will be blown again.

Good Luck,

Hackberry

[DouginUtah]

Well, since Hackberry brought up the subject of degree days, I will take this as an opportunity to report that I have kept track of the degree days here (Logan, UT) and in summary we had in 2009 7668 heating degree days and 364 cooling degree days. December '08 was 1272 and '09 was 1509, so it was a much colder December this year than last.

It is very easy to keep track each month if you find the right page on www.accuweather.com.

I want to thank Hackberry for introducing me to the concept.

[stumper]

Red oak is great.  I like it, sugar maple, beech, and yellow birch, but my two favorite are apple, and black locust.  I don't get much apple as everybody wants it but I can get the black locust as many think it is a messy crappy tree.  It is but boy can it keep you warm.

[ral]

Hackberry,

I have read your posts on the fusion chamber of the e-classic, if I am remembering correctly. Was the replacement you intalled CB's new version, heavier I think? I got a new one but didn't open the box yet and have not compared them. Will wait to spring I hope to replace it when I shut down. Is there any major affects running the unit with it is ruptured?

Thanks,
Randy

[island]

Hackberry,
Started burning my e-classic this year and I think I've run into the same problem you had.Burning kinda dry or kinda damp wood from forest floor.Furnace works great till temp goes under 20,than it smokes and won't hold 185, stays in 170s.My guess is I need dryer wood what do you think? Also CB came out with a stronger fusion chamber in sept. tried to get ahold of one but they said not till mine blows out.Could buy it for $70.00.