Thinking about a Peterson....

[Engineer]

I spent half the day reading every word and watching videos and looking at photos on the Peterson site, and reading through as many of the "Peterson" threads as I could digest.  I think I want one.

However, I've been using a Woodmizer for two years now, and I also have been thinking about upgrading to a new WM LT40HD.   I don't know which mill would be "better" for me.  The WM is significantly more expensive, and it seems to me that it would be easier to cut large cants for timber framing on the WM.   I still need to build a shop/barn next year, and maybe a mill shed or a lumber shed, and I am procrastinating about cutting any more lumber because the old WM is such a pain to use. 

I have a large pile of logs right now, mostly white pine, ranging from 10-24" diam. and 8-16' long.  Also have a smaller pile of hardwoods that are all 8-10' long and 10-16" diam.  That will be 99% of what I cut, although the ability to cut short logs (4-6' long) and larger diameters (28-40") is appealing on the swing blade.  It's hard to do on the Woodmizer.   I know of places that I can get some monstrous butt logs that are just left to rot because nobody can handle them.  Spalted sugar maple, white oak, clear white pine, and it's being abandoned.

I also need to be able to cut lap siding (clapboards), which the WM does easily with their attachment.  Maybe if I were to get a lap siding attachment from WM and rig it up to use with a swingblade?  Maybe the best of both worlds.   Most of what I'll be needing in the future is standard dimension lumber (1x, 2x) and beams (4x6, 4x8, 6x6, 6x8,6x10) up to 20' long.   

I need to see one of these critters in action, and figure out just where the Peterson is "weak" compared to a Woodmizer.  The weaknesses of the swing blade may not be bad enough for me to go the bandsaw route again.  I guess a day's worth of reading isn't enough, I'm so used to using a bandmill that a swingblade seems like an alien.   The biggest "deficiency" if you can call it that, seems to be quartersawing wide boards out fo a large log, and sawing for grade.  I know if I'm trying to grade-saw a valuable log, I'm always flippin' it around looking for the best face.  I can't do that with the swing blade, I have to take what I get.  Right?  Somebody educate me.

Captain, if you're reading this, the Northeastern Woodworkers Association holds their annual show in Saratoga, NY in March, and Woodmizer is always there, alone.  You might be able to finagle some demo space and sell more folks on the Peterson in this neck of the woods.   


Anybody in VT/NY/NH using a Peterson, willing to demo it and let me "help" on your site for a Saturday or Sunday?

[Part_Timer]

Engineer

I have the ATS 8" Peterson mill.  I had an LT15 before

Cutting cants is as easy as lowering the carrage 8" pushing the blade through then swing the blade shift over 8" pull through.  8x8 beam.  if your boxing the heart I just mark it out in lumber crayon.  Cut to the lines and cut out the heart.

Making lap siding is also easy.  I can mail you the direction sheet if you would like to see it.  It is no more complicated than swinging the blade.

quartersawing is no problem either.  on the top and bottom you cut vertical in the width of your board.  when you get toward the middle where you are again in Q grain.  you only drop the mill head to the thickness of your boards and take the width with the horizontal cut.


I also like being able to cut around knots as they show up.  If I'm cutting 6" wide boards and a knot appears on the edge I just readjust the cut to edge it out and keep making boards.  When it is time to move the cut I cut the knot out and readjust as needed and begin to cut again.  This way there is no need to cut the boards and then restack them and trim the knot off of the edge.

hope this made sence

Best of luck

Tom

[Ianab]

Probably the main 'weakness' with the swingblades is cutting small logs. They do it OK, just no better than a bandmill. You just seem to spend too much time loading / lining up little logs and not enough time pulling off nice boards  ;)

Yes your quartersawing is mostly limited to 8", but it's very easy and with a decent log you can just slice out 8x1s as easy as any other board. If you get really big logs you can allways double cut some bigger stuff.

The grade sawing thing just needs to be thought out differently. You start on top of the log, usually the best face and saw the first 1/3 flat. This will probably see you starting to get some knots as you near the pith. Now you switch to vertical boards and go across the log. You get good boards near the bark, lower grade as you go in, then cut out the pith and hopefully the grade improves as you approach the other bark. If it's a good log you get some more high grade from the bottom slab. Just you are cutting OUT from the INSIDE of the log now.

You can also change cutting patterns as you go, quarter saw part of a log and flat saw others, cut different dimensions etc depending on what you find inside the log.

But being able to handle those BIG 'reject' logs would be the main plus for the Peterson of course  8)

Ian

[Captain]

Now Jon, how could I not read a thread titled "thinking about a Peterson".   :D

You should really come down a cut for a solid day.  I'll even put you up, we'll go to the firehouse and get some Chicken Wings at Wendells, the best you'll ever have.

You're actually really close to Maple Flats, he has an ATS.

You could go cut with Vermonter, he has a WPF like mine.

Or hey, you can help me bust open this mystery crate and see what's inside....

We're here for you!!  I know you know the way, you did it before!!

Captain

[Husband]

Jon, go see the Captain...EVERYONE wants to know what is in the crate that he has. :D
BTW, make sure that he tails out for you as well ;)
Chris

[Todd]

Does the crate say "FRAGEELAY"?  Maybe from Italy? Perhaps its a major award! :D :D

[maple flats]

Hi, Maple Flats here. I would be glad to demo the ATS for a day on a weekend for and with you. Can't beat free help, besides I LOVE showing and talking about my Peterson. I can also tell you the main differences between the ATS and the WPF. If you want to take me up on this, send me a PM and we can arrange it. This weekend however is out, I have a maple conference I am attending, however every other weekend is currently open until maple season starts in late Feb or early march.
Maple Flats

[Engineer]

Well thanks all, for the offers to demo a Peterson and some of the information.  As long as the Peterson does small logs acceptably, that's OK.  I find it already very difficult to handle short logs (8' or less), small logs (8" diameter or less) and since the small diameters don't get me much besides a boxed heart post, I don't bother.  My outdoor wood boiler eats all the rejects.   ;D  My primary sawing will be cants for timber framing, up to a 12 x 16 maximum size, but usually not more than 8 x 12; dimension lumber (pine) for framing; high-grade hardwood boards (4/4, 5/4 and 6/4) and very little else.  Sawing clapboards will probably be a one-time deal, enough for a shop building and that will be it.  I may do board-and-batten and forego the claps entirely.  I do like to get some wide (12-14") white pine occasionally, but I guess I can still do that by doublecutting, right?  The 8" saws can cut up to 16" wide by 8" thick?

Maple Flats and Captain, thanks for the demo offers.  I can't really do much of anything during January, maybe the end of the month or February.  You're both about the same travel time away from me, but with two different saw models.  What to do, what to do....  Maybe visit BOTH of ya.   Captain you may be first, I have a couple reasons to get to Boston in the next two months.

One of the things that seems to be a negative for the Peterson mills is resawing.  I don't see how it's possible, to slice a cant into boards.  I guess you have to plan your cuts a bit more carefully, knowing what you will need.   Of course, I haven't found the need to resaw anything yet, and don't anticipate that need, so  ???

[Captain]

Jon, you can see the whole product line here in the month of January, I've got it all.  (oops, gotta chase that cat and get it back into the bag.... :D)

Captain

[Part_Timer]

I told ya I knew what was in the box Craig.

Them cats are hard to get back into the bag best of luck.

Congrats 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)


Tom

By the way I sent the form in today.  We'll see what happens but I'm still not sure about it.

Tom

[TexasTimbers]

I'm doing the same thing Engineer. Wanting to read all ahbout swing mills before I leap off into a bandmill. I rejected them oujt of hand at first because I just can't get my head wrapped around them. then i looked at that D&L Doublecut and slobbered over it. Just too much coin.

I can keep the manual mill for wide stuff. In fact, 24" wide is not wide enough for my liking so i need a slabber anyhow.

Do you mind giving an update on where you are at in your thinking as to getting a swing versus a band?

[Nate Surveyor]

Whellll, I bought a chain saw ALASKAN MILL, and got me feet wet. Sawed a bunch of cedar, and made a bunch of benches, and other cool stuff.

Then I bought a LOGOSOL. I loved it. It was NO GOOD for 30" dia x 16.5' green pine or oak. NOT STRONG ENOUGH. I sold it. Also, it was too slow. But I really loved it. I used it and built an 8' x 10' shed. Every board was milled on the Logosol, except the truss connectors.

Now I have a Peterson. I really love it. There is NOTHING like it.

I plan to (eventually) video the WHOLE process. From Log pile, to finished boards. NO time outs. This would give a better pic of the whole process.

I need to buy a DVD recorder, to copy my DV format video tapes.

When I get one made, do you want it?

Nate

[TexasTimbers]

Nate that would be an awesome tool for other coming up the road to have, but I doubt I will still be in the decision making stage. Could be ya never know but i need to get this decision made as quickly as I can without making a mistake.
There is a fine line there, and I am not there yet so if you can get it done in the next thrity minutes sure thing.  ;)

I am thinking more like I'm gonna take about another week to two weeks to decide - unless a deal of the decade comes along and haven't ran into that yet.

It's agreat idea Nate. I'd love to see a swinger going at it full tilt boogie. Wasn't there some kinda race before with a swinger versus a bandmill in Arkansas or sumpthing? How'd that turn out ???

[Nate Surveyor]

Here's how I decided.

A high end band saw, would beat a swinger. Like a Wood miser, 40 HP diesel, full hydraulics, and a DEBARKER.

But, if that kind of money is not there, then a swinger, (I wanted a Production Frame) will PRODUCE ready to use lumber, after drying it.

Your board ft per hour is HIGHER with a swinger, than a comperably priced band.
Your boards are already edged.
Your lumber is GREAT dimensionally.
No wavey cuts.
A nail hurts you to the tune of 20 bucks EITHER way. (It costs me 20 bucks to put new teeth on my 10 tooth Peterson Blades)
But a band needs sharpened. You had best have 10-20 extra bands to work with a bandsaw. And sharpening and resetting is a minimum of 20-30 mins each. So, after milling for 7 hrs, you have minimum 1 hr of blade work PER DAY.
So, with a peterson, you have an average of 15 mins of blade work per day.
Or send the band blades off, at maybe 10 bucks each. So, this adds 25 bucks a day to milling.

Anyway, the band saws are best for CLEAN logs. If you only have CLEAN logs, then band is cool.

Anyway, I decided that the swinger should come FIRST. Then maybe add a band mill later, that can run on these tracks. Then, I could open the log with the WPF, and finish it with a band. This would give the best of both worlds.
Dimensionally, for a TIMBER framed house, the swinger is beter.

My opinions.

Dirty logs break the tie, and send you into swinger land first.

Nate

PS, yes there have been a number of races. The swingers are faster than the big production band mills.

But the races do not show maintenence time on blades. That breaks the tie. Gives the swinger the advantage.

N

[TexasTimbers]

Timber Framing is not my only focus and in fact not the main thrust. Cutting eastern red cedar logs in the 6" - 12" tops range will be the bread and butter. 40%- 50% of the cutting. the other 50% -60% will be larger hardwoods for grade and beams. I sort of need both.

You made some excellent points.

[TexasTimbers]

Something that just occured to me, it seems that offloading the boards will be more labor intensive with a swinger because unless you put it up on a platform aren't you bending over alot?

[Ianab]

Probably a fair comment. If I was sawing a lot of small logs from a fixed location I think it would be worth the effort of making a serious log deck and set of log bunks that raised the logs up 18" off the ground and had some sort of dogs incorporated. Wouldn't have to be anything elaborate, just some solid timbers and a few bolts. You still need to keep your walking path clear, but having the log bunks at knee height would make offloading boards easier on your back.

Ian

[Captain]

I'm with Ian, for small logs deck them and dog them 

Captain

[logman]

I'm working on a timber frame barn with a friend that has a Peterson.  I have a WM LT30 with
a 12' extention.  I leave him the huge oak logs so he can saw out free of heart timbers that I
would have trouble doing.  I saw the smaller logs so I can box the heart with less trouble than
he would have.  Maybe I'm just partial to my Wood-Mizer but I think I like my bandmill better
but I wouldn't mind having both.  I don't see the blade sharpening as that big an issue, I send
them out and just figure it in as cost of doing business.  You don't go through that many
blades sawing out timbers anyway unless the logs are dirty or hit metal.