Felling dead trees

[Qweaver]

We've been felling trees for the past few days and we've had a few scary ones.  We had a sycamore today 30" dia and mostly hollow at the base AND leaning the wrong way.  An old house and the power lines lie in the path of the lean.  We hooked a cable about 20' up the tree and pulled on it with the tractor.  Made the notch and as I'm making the fell cut it starts to go the right way, David spins the tires and loses a little traction and it sets back down on the saw blade and he can't get it back up.  We decide to hook up another cable and pull with the dozer and as I'm going to get the cable and the dozer a BIG wind comes up and blows it over in exactly the right spot.   Glad I wasn't up the ladder hooking up the second cable when that happened.   :
Now we have a 24" dia, dead poplar that's aimed straight at my storage building to get safely down.  Cousin Rodney is going to help with this one.  He seems to think that he can push it over with the dozer blade but I'm going to hook a cable and pull with the tractor just as extra insurance.  My dozer is only a Case 450 and even tilted it dosen't reach real high.  Dead trees get me nervous :(
Quinton

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Pushing a dead tree is not wise. The top may break out and fall back on the dozer, or, the tree snap off and go wherever it wants. Both very risky business. A cable might be a good idea.

[beenthere]

I think you are right about not pushing. First thing when pushing is someone ramming it, and causing the top to whip, and a dead section dropping on top of the dozer/operator. Pulling (and having a good notch and plunge cut with wedges) seems a good way to go.

Seems I woulda (maybe you couldn't) hooked the dozer to the tractor to pull this previous one down, rather than climb that cut tree to hook another cable. Dead ones can be a lot of trouble. Careful out there. 

[Qweaver]

Yep, pulling the tractor with the dozer was discussed, but we only had a 3/8" cable up there and the tractor won't break a 3/8" cable but the dozer will snap it in a heartbeat and the idea of not having anything up there and having to climb back up was not in my plan.  We have pulled some pretty big trees with a lot of lean over the past year and this is the first one that really gave us any trouble.  We have several more big, leany trees to deal with...so some 3/4" cable for the dozer has to be found.
Quinton

[rebocardo]

As a matter of leverage alone, pushing a tree over is not a good idea because you can not get the blade high enough to make a difference if it decides to fall backwards or split. Especially on a dead tree.

I think there is the safety factor of when the undercut is made and when the pushing vehicle is going to be around the feller. OSHA likes the feller to be 2 tree lengths away before the pushing vehicle enters the area for good reason. If you leave a big enough notch to hold the tree for the pushing vehicle, is it going to cause a barberchair? Or are you going to wedge it?

Plus, you can not control the fall with pushing alone. The safest way is to have two deadman lines and one winch line with the winch line attached either to a winch or a heavy 4x4. If the tree is any decent size (say 30" oak - 100 feet tall) it pays to anchor the anchor vehicle to another tree so it can't be pulled back but leave it enough chain or cable to boot forwards.  Your popular is not that heavy, so a normal 4x4 around 6k pounds should be enough with the wheels chocked so it can't be pulled backwards, though with property at risk I would anchor the anchor/winch vehicle even though the deadman lines should prevent it from being pulled backwards.

I would wrap any dead tree in chain to prevent or limit barberchair.

The other thing to consider is any pushing vehicle with ROPS is not likely to stop big pieces of dead tree limb from impaling the driver or from crushing the cab. OSHA has a few good stories on that. A 1,000 pounds of oak dropped from 40+ feet up is going to have time to reach 32 feet per second and is going to make a big dent in something.

Myself, once I have at least three steel cables in a dead tree, I shake it with my 4x4 to dislodge any dead branches AND if the tree is going to come apart once it gets off angle, I want to know before I get wedges in.  Just don't get excessive about it and start it whipping back and forth or break the cable.

I think dead pine is the worse for splitting in 1/2 once they get tilted and having the top fall in the direction opposite the notch. Which is where the two deadman cables and anchor come into play. More then once person in the area has been killed by pine and popular that split in 1/2 and came through their roof during a storm.

>  Glad I wasn't up the ladder hooking up the second cable when that happened.

I never go up in a ladder against a tree higher then I am willing to fall, 4-6 feet. In urban areas (houses) it is a wise idea to always get at least two lines up into a tree, in case one breaks, even if you have no plans to use it.

The only property damage I have caused have been small trees (4" and under) without lines that did not fall where I wanted them to. I learned after the second tree. Luckily both tree combined were only $25 out of my pocket in damages.

[burlman]

if your tractor was spinning and the tree went back your point of pull was way to low for what you are trying to do. get your cable higher up the tree. the higher you go the less pull you will need to topple the tree. There is a story in our little town of a ""tree expert"" who had to take down this huge dead elm. He had a 1 ton dually dodge 4x4, tied it to the tree with a cable, and proceeded to pull as  his faller made the back cut. was going pretty good til he reached the shoulder of the road on the opposite side and lost traction, the tree went back at a good speed, fell through the house, and sling shot the truck on top of the whole mess. it is all there in that physics class we all slept through. anyway be careful .We are in the tree removal business and have seen to many accidents

[E.B.]

I run a tree removal business and 90% of the time I use a lift and take the tree down from the top or get my bull rope where I want it. Remember SAFTY is the first rule when cutting any tree and a dead tree will do some strange thing. I've had them break in 2 or 3 places before they hit the ground, even had one break at the bottom and kick back. the MAN up stairs was watching over me that day. Remember if they are any doubt don't cut.



                                                                                                  EB

[Qweaver]

Remember if they are any doubt don't cut.
                                                                                                  EB

Well, I wish it were that simple.  The tree is going to fall at some point anyway and it is leaning straight toward my out building.  Better to have a controlled fall with my dozer and tractor pulling on it from a safe distance than to have it come down unexpectantly, probably during a storm or high wind event. 
Quinton

[Kevin]

get your cable higher up the tree. the higher you go the less pull you will need

Use a throw line and get it high, about two thirds up.
Back up your felling cut with wedges.

[Furby]

That's what insurance is for Quinton. ;D
Remember, they dont like to pay if you screw up and drop the tree on the building, but if the storm does it, it's a bit easier to get them to cover it. ;)

[Phorester]

Quinton, do you have access to a frontend loader instead of a bulldozer?  I'm talking about the larger construction machines, not the little Bobcats or whatever. The higher lift of the bucket gives you more leverage to push a tree over.  The bucket teeth have a better chance of digging into and holding the tree as it falls. 

If nothing else, you can ride up in the bucket a pretty good height to tie cables for pulling.

[burlman]

another safety tip. when we are pulling or winching with a powerful machine. we always wrap a heavy chain and bear trap around the trunk. this is to prevent a barber's chair from occuring. if the winch pulls to fast for the back cutting you can split the tree, injure the faller and have an unpredictable fall

[rebocardo]

> Use a throw line and get it high, about two thirds up.

I use to use a dog trainer and 3/8 shackle and mason string to get it going for the heavier line, then decided to throw down the $150 for a BigShot slingshot because some pines branches/crotches were just too far out of reach and the line too wimpy for pine bark.

The BigShot rocks. I can toss a 12 oz bag using the arborist line a good 75 feet with the solid 8 foot fiberglass pole without much effort.  Lets you get an almost vertical shot off easy when next to a house 8)

Lets me get choosy so I can put all three steel cables in different spots and heights according to where I think the tree is the strongest vs. easiest to reach.

[Qweaver]

Well, the big dead tree is on the ground with very little drama.  Turns out it was not poplar. Nor does it look like oak or maple...which are the three main trees that I have on this property.  I tried sawing it to see if I could figure out what it is but the cousins have been using my bandsaw while we have been in Texas over the winter and it was pretty dull.  This dead tree is very hard so ID will have to wait until I get a new blade on the saw.  We have a 30" and a 36" poplar to fell tomorrow and the shed and power lines are also at peril from them... so I'm off to buy some 5/8" cable so the we can get the dozer into the pull.
Quinton

[Kevin]

Be very careful with steel cable near any power lines.
I would never use it.

[sawguy21]

Earlier today I watched a large poplar being dropped. The feller, if he could be called that, did the back cut from both sides with what appeared to be a Crapsman and a 16" bar, no wedges and apparently no face cut. For some reason, he did not pinch the bar. His partner pushed it over with a track hoe while he stood directly behind the tree. The stump rocked noticeably, obviously very rotten. At least they were wearing hardhats and high vis vests. :