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STANDARDIZE CHAINS

Started by KDE5555, November 27, 2018, 03:06:56 AM

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KDE5555

Hi All,

New member from Oz here ..

I've bought a small farm and intend moving to it next Easter.
In the meantime I'm getting my gear together to be able to clear a few trees and to cut firewood for home heating.
(which is about 10 months of the year).
I have a Husky 435 which I intend to sell, and also have a few Stihl's.
My intention is to standardize the Bars & Chain on the Stihl's so that I can setup for making my own chain from rolls.

As I'm a newbie, I'd like some input to whether I'm headed in the right direction.
After selling the Husky, and an old McCulloch, I'll be left with the following Stihl chainsaws:
024
MS260C
MS361
MS362
HT101

Except for the HT101, I'd like to go with all 3/8 .063 Bar and Chains using Semi-Chisel (mainly cutting Hardwood)

I was thinking 024 - 16", 260C - 18", 361 - 20", & 362 - 24"

What do the Forum members think?, should I be looking at a different path?
Also, will sprockets need changing on the 024/260?

Thanks,

Keith

mike_belben

Id suggest a full chisel cutter.  
Praise The Lord

KDE5555

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the reply ..

I was told over here that the Full Chisel is for Softwoods, and that Hardwoods use Semi Chisel?

All new to me so, open to all views ..

How are my Bar sizes and thought of sticking to a standard chain?

Keith

teakwood

I would stay with semi chisel, he is not in production and the semi holds their edge way longer than full chisel. The 260 can be used with 3/8 chain but you will need to change the sprocket. the 024 i don't know, others will chime in

As for making your own loops, from what i read in the FF it's not cheaper unless you go thru alot of loops a year, like a production faller. Cutting firewood i don't think you will need more than 10 loops a year 
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

DelawhereJoe

You can go the other way and use .325 on all of them. You would be limited to a 20" bar unless running a hard nose.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

HolmenTree

Quote from: DelawhereJoe on November 27, 2018, 08:57:47 AM
You can go the other way and use .325 on all of them. You would be limited to a 20" bar unless running a hard nose.
Yup you can . Stihl 26 RM chain would be good , but only problem is a 9 tooth .325 rim sprocket would have to be used on the 361/362 as it takes standard 7 spline.  Aftermarket Danzco may make a 8 tooth standard 7 spline .325 rim though.

Aussie wood is not like the stuff we have here over in North America,  Average Aussie wood is brutal tough on chains.
I suggest Stihl 3/8" 36 RMC on everything if he wants a standard size chain.  
Yes a standard 3/8 sprocket is available for the 024/260.
But the operator has to keep the chain continuously sharp, so being able to.free hand file at the stump is important.

Making loops off a roll of chain is what I do and I save ALOT of money over the years even if I was to only use few loops a year.
Bench mount spinner and breaker are not alot of money. When I started out I used a hand held Granberg break n mend. Still works great today , only had to change the little $5 punches a few times when they get too blunt.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

lxskllr

Only question I'd have is the choice of gauge. That's on the rarer side, no? Around here. I'd use .050.

As far as spinning your own loops goes... I can make my own Stihl chain for about the cost(which is already decently priced) a local hardware store will spin Oregon, and I like Stihl chain better.

mike_belben

Missed the australia part. I dont know anything about whats good for you there.

Ive never made chain from a roll.  Not sure i would bother if i wasnt a full time cutter getting paid back for the investment fairly quick. 
Praise The Lord

HolmenTree

.063 is what I see is the common gauge of chain in Australia.

My brother is a farmer in Saskatchewan he owns a breaker/spinner and buys chain by the 25 foot roll , it's just the thing to do when you got confidence in yourself :D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

DelawhereJoe

I think this is a mini spline clutch drum for your saw Chainsaw Sprocket Kit 3/8" for Stihl MS310, MS311, MS340, MS360, MS362 there is also a link from that site to other related parts. I hope its a mini spline clutch drum and not a standard spline.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

HolmenTree

Quote from: DelawhereJoe on November 27, 2018, 11:37:28 AM
I think this is a mini spline clutch drum for your saw Chainsaw Sprocket Kit 3/8" for Stihl MS310, MS311, MS340, MS360, MS362 there is also a link from that site to other related parts. I hope its a mini spline clutch drum and not a standard spline.
Joe, that a large 7 spline bore standard 3/8 7 tooth rim.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

DelawhereJoe

On the link for things that fit this product it brings it to a small spline rim also in 3/8, he may need to call or message them to find out what product it really is. I think you told me that the older saws ran the mini spline and not the standard spline. I think you told me to get the clutch drum for a 291 for converting my 362 c-m to a .325x7 rim.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

HolmenTree

Quote from: DelawhereJoe on November 27, 2018, 01:34:55 PM
On the link for things that fit this product it brings it to a small spline rim also in 3/8, he may need to call or message them to find out what product it really is. I think you told me that the older saws ran the mini spline and not the standard spline. I think you told me to get the clutch drum for a 291 for converting my 362 c-m to a .325x7 rim.
The rim pic in the top of your attachment is what I said it was. I never said anything about a 291 or your 362 in the past.
The very first series of 034 that came out in 1984 had mini 7 spline drums and rim sprockets. So yeah a 036S all the way to a 360 (that's a far as my history goes) will fit. I had no need to ever convert a 361/362 to .325
My Husqvarna 562XP I did convert to a Jonsereds 2260 small 7 spline drum and .325 rim sprocket. Husqvarna never had a mini 7 spline and Stihl never had a small 7 spline.
Confused? :D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

nativewolf

Quote from: KDE5555 on November 27, 2018, 03:06:56 AM
Hi All,

New member from Oz here ..

I've bought a small farm and intend moving to it next Easter.
In the meantime I'm getting my gear together to be able to clear a few trees and to cut firewood for home heating.
(which is about 10 months of the year).
I have a Husky 435 which I intend to sell, and also have a few Stihl's.
My intention is to standardize the Bars & Chain on the Stihl's so that I can setup for making my own chain from rolls.

As I'm a newbie, I'd like some input to whether I'm headed in the right direction.
After selling the Husky, and an old McCulloch, I'll be left with the following Stihl chainsaws:
024
MS260C
MS361
MS362
HT101

Except for the HT101, I'd like to go with all 3/8 .063 Bar and Chains using Semi-Chisel (mainly cutting Hardwood)

I was thinking 024 - 16", 260C - 18", 361 - 20", & 362 - 24"

What do the Forum members think?, should I be looking at a different path?
Also, will sprockets need changing on the 024/260?

Thanks,

Keith
Keith, 10 months of heating in Australia?  You up in one of the southern mountains?  
Liking Walnut

KDE5555

Quote from: teakwood on November 27, 2018, 07:40:52 AM
I would stay with semi chisel, he is not in production and the semi holds their edge way longer than full chisel. The 260 can be used with 3/8 chain but you will need to change the sprocket. the 024 i don't know, others will chime in

As for making your own loops, from what i read in the FF it's not cheaper unless you go thru a lot of loops a year, like a production faller. Cutting firewood i don't think you will need more than 10 loops a year 
Thanks Teakwood, the reason to make my own loops, was more of a hobby thing rather than a cost savings. :)

KDE5555

Quote from: DelawhereJoe on November 27, 2018, 11:37:28 AM
I think this is a mini spline clutch drum for your saw Chainsaw Sprocket Kit 3/8" for Stihl MS310, MS311, MS340, MS360, MS362 there is also a link from that site to other related parts. I hope its a mini spline clutch drum and not a standard spline.
Thanks Joe,
I'll have to check it out, not sure what I have.
Keith

KDE5555

Quote from: nativewolf on November 27, 2018, 03:49:41 PMKeith, 10 months of heating in Australia?  You up in one of the southern mountains?  
Down South, on the coast ... we get the winds come up from the Arctic, not so much temperature, more wind chill factor ..
It can be hot days, then cold nights ... the saying here is "we can have four seasons, in one day" ...
I went down there last Christmas for 10 days, over that time, only 2 nights without a fire going ... and Christmas is the middle of our summer ...
It's a bit different to where I actually live up north where it was 35c [95f] ...

HolmenTree

Quote from: HolmenTree on November 27, 2018, 03:02:45 PM
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on November 27, 2018, 01:34:55 PM
On the link for things that fit this product it brings it to a small spline rim also in 3/8, he may need to call or message them to find out what product it really is. I think you told me that the older saws ran the mini spline and not the standard spline. I think you told me to get the clutch drum for a 291 for converting my 362 c-m to a .325x7 rim.
The rim pic in the top of your attachment is what I said it was. I never said anything about a 291 or your 362 in the past.
The very first series of 034 that came out in 1984 had mini 7 spline drums and rim sprockets. So yeah a 036S all the way to a 360 (that's a far as my history goes) will fit. I had no need to ever convert a 361/362 to .325
My Husqvarna 562XP I did convert to a Jonsereds 2260 small 7 spline drum and .325 rim sprocket. Husqvarna never had a mini 7 spline and Stihl never had a small 7 spline.
Confused? :D
Joe, I see now what you were getting at....converting KDE5555's 361/362 to .325  to make all his saws standard with .325 chain.
But I wouldn't advise converting the 361/362 to a mini splined clutch drum so he could run the smaller 7 or 8 tooth .325 rim sprockets ( standard 7 spline 9 tooth. 325 sprocket on the 361/362's large spline drum is too big a gear up )

The problem is the mini 7 spline drum needs a much thinner drum bearing to fit the  crankshaft. These bearings were prone to breaking which caused a wobble in the drum sometimes damaging the oil pump parts. Reason why the 034 went to the large 7 spline drum and 3/8 .

The .325  conversion can be done as the parts are still available but I still think the bigger 3/8 chain is a better choice for that 60cc saws for what he's cutting.

The 2 smaller 50cc saws can easily handle the smaller wood with a standard 3/8 chain.
Ideally .325 on the smaller saws, 3/8 on the bigger.  But one size for all go 3/8.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

DelawhereJoe

I said mini but ment small spline, the .325 x9 it rather large for the 362 you gotta go more easy handed on it then the 3/8 x7. I'll see if I cant find locally a 3/8 x7 small spline and try it out on my 024 and 026. The 024 with a 3/8p x7 cuts very well even though the sprocket it larger then a .328 x8.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

DelawhereJoe

 QS 0000 642 1231 this should be the small spline 3/8 x7 rim for the 024 and 260 you have.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

KDE5555

Quote from: DelawhereJoe on November 27, 2018, 10:57:08 PM
QS 0000 642 1231 this should be the small spline 3/8 x7 rim for the 024 and 260 you have.
Thanks Joe,
I just picked up 2 x Genuine Stihl branded ones off ebay :)
Keith

HolmenTree

Quote from: KDE5555 on November 28, 2018, 06:48:57 AM
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on November 27, 2018, 10:57:08 PM
QS 0000 642 1231 this should be the small spline 3/8 x7 rim for the 024 and 260 you have.
Thanks Joe,
I just picked up 2 x Genuine Stihl branded ones off ebay :)
Keith
Good job Joe!
But don't forget Stihl doesn't make a small 7 spline rim sprocket and clutch drum, only a mini 7 and standard 7.
Husqvarna makes small 7 and standard 7 spline.

Keith, welcome to the forum and your new adventures.

Heres a pic of 4 rim sprockets.
On top left: Stihl mini 7 spline bore 8Tooth Picco 3/8"
To the right: standard 7 spline bore 9 Tooth .325
Bottom left: Husqvarna small 7 spline bore 7 tooth standard 3/8"
To the right: standard 7 spline bore 7 tooth standard 3/8"


Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Mad Professor

Quote from: DelawhereJoe on November 27, 2018, 11:37:28 AM
I think this is a mini spline clutch drum for your saw Chainsaw Sprocket Kit 3/8" for Stihl MS310, MS311, MS340, MS360, MS362 there is also a link from that site to other related parts. I hope its a mini spline clutch drum and not a standard spline.
That is the same clutch setup used on the 034 and early 036.  Can also get those parts from stihl.  Realize that uses the smaller less durable bearing, but does allow smaller rims to be used.

maple flats

Unless you have poor sources for chain, I suspect just for firewood, you would be hard pressed to recover the cost of a chain breaker and spinner unless you use the hand tool version. You just would not get enough use to save enough to pay for the equipment.
I think if you do decide to consolidate chain varieties, you might do best trying to reduce it to 2 numbers of chain to cover so many saws.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

lxskllr

I've found the hand breaker very easy to use. See this thread...

Making/Repairing chains, Cheap Gear? in Chainsaws

The hardest part is keeping everything straight while peening the presets. Not that hard though, and the portability is fantastic. If I could get a bench system for half price, I doubt I would. <$20, does what I need, and fits in my pocket. Might be different if I owned a company, and had to manage many saws simultaneously, but for a weekend warrior/firewood hack, the pocket breaker works great.

Mad Professor

I'm with most the opinions given so far.

The 45-50cc saws are best with 0.325 pitch chains and 7 pins, the 60cc 3/8 pitch and 7 pins.

The bar mounts are all 3003 stihl so bars will interchange if gearing matches the chains/sprockets.

The smaller saws will be happier with 0.325, but will run 3/8 O.K. if not big wood/bar, and rakers kept shallow.

The 60cc saws can run either pitch but with 0.325 there is the gearing problem with 0.325, unless you retrofit to the old 034/036 clutch with wimpier bearing.  IMO I don't think the 362 is any better than the 361 for a 20" vs 24" bar.  But you can sort that out as the wood tells you.

If you want all 3/8 pitch, just go easy on the smaller saws.  Smaller wood/shorter bars, and keep the rakers shallow.

KDE5555

Thanks Professor .. great info :)

KDE5555

Quote from: Mad Professor on November 30, 2018, 01:04:06 PM
Quote from: DelawhereJoe on November 27, 2018, 11:37:28 AM
I think this is a mini spline clutch drum for your saw Chainsaw Sprocket Kit 3/8" for Stihl MS310, MS311, MS340, MS360, MS362 there is also a link from that site to other related parts. I hope its a mini spline clutch drum and not a standard spline.
That is the same clutch setup used on the 034 and early 036.  Can also get those parts from stihl.  Realize that uses the smaller less durable bearing, but does allow smaller rims to be used.
Hi Guys, Thanks for all your help and great info ...


  
Here's my dilemma ... L/H is my 024 Spur Drive, Middle is my 260 Rim Drive, R/H is my 361 Rim Drive.
I bought the Conversion for the 024 from the Jono & Johno site suggested ... 
All ok .. 3/8-7 clutch drum matches except they won't take a Stihl sprocket...
[Chinese knock-off I guess, which locks you into buying only their sprockets]
So correct me if I'm wrong ... this is the way I see it ...
My 024 and 260 clutch drums differ in height 024 is 13.7mm 260 is 17.7mm
Are these both Mini drives?
If so, I'm going to have to get 2 types of 3/8-7 sprockets? .. true?
Mini & Standard?
The sprockets I've bought so far are all 3/8-7 standard [the larger ones]..
So I'm going to have to get the following:
* - 13.7mm clutch drum with mini rim drive for the 024
* - Clutch drum for 260 is ok as is
* - New mini 3/8-7 sprockets for the 024 + 260

I'd like to stay with all Stihl parts rather than the imports ...
Any ideas on part numbers to order?
Thanks again for all your comments ..

Keith.

KDE5555

Quote from: maple flats on November 30, 2018, 04:52:21 PM
Unless you have poor sources for chain, I suspect just for firewood, you would be hard pressed to recover the cost of a chain breaker and spinner unless you use the hand tool version. You just would not get enough use to save enough to pay for the equipment.
I think if you do decide to consolidate chain varieties, you might do best trying to reduce it to 2 numbers of chain to cover so many saws.
Hi all,
There's a couple of reasons to make my own links, mainly as a hobby, but also location is a bit isolated, so will be good to make them myself as needed.
I ended up buying a combination Breaker/Spinner ... it cost me $77 US, which is just over $100 AUS.
Haven't set it up yet, will wait till we make the move down south ...
Photo attached ...


 
Keith

HolmenTree

KD, you are confused. Mini drive is not the chain pitch or  part of the sprocket that drives the chain. It is the 7 splined  bored hole in the middle of the sprocket that fits on the clutch drum. Proper term is Mini 7 spline.
I explained this in previous posts.

Your 024 drum is fine with the spur sprocket,  it's a 7 tooth 3/8 isn't it?
Yes the 260 drum is for a mini 7 spline bore rim sprocket.  Your 361 drum has the larger standard 7 spline bore drum , can you see the difference?

Any drum height difference? Make sure the oil pump drive rod connects in the drums slot.

I like that breaker spinner combo you got there.

Making a living with a saw since age 16.

KDE5555

Thanks Holeman Tree,
Yes slowly getting my head around it ...
I went to the Stihl dealer this morning and ordered the new parts.
Not cheap ... $21 for a sprocket and $54 for the housing ...

Keith

Al_Smith

The question regarding the 024 is it uses .325 x .063 if it's a Stihl bar .Don't make the mistake like I did and take for granted it's .050 gauge because it won't cut so good .
Cutter style I think is a personal choice .I prefer round chisel myself mainly because it cuts faster .On the 024 with a 16" bar it doesn't take that long to file the chain .The idea is to keep it sharp rather than let it go dull and take three times the amount of time to get it sharp again .

KDE5555

Hi Al,
I'm going with 3/8 .063 on all saws ...
I will have to upgrade bars on the smaller two.
The 024 and 260 will be just for light stuff .. limbing etc.
The 361 & 362 I'll use for felling and docking to length ..

Keith

Al_Smith

This is an old thread I stumbled onto with the mention of a Stihl 024 regarding the clutch drum set up .Stihl as a company never made a rim sprocket assembly for this model but did for the 026 and later 260 .However the standard drum for those will work but needs about 4 mm shaved off the bottom of the drum .I just did this recently using a 12" disc grinder and it worked well .
That little saw is the perfect size for a job I'm doing. Clearing out of brush from a 250 foot ditch bank which is the closest thing resembling a jungle I've ever seen .My word ,grape vines ,thorn bushes all intertwined like a rope .If it were further back from the road I'd have ran my dozer through it .Do it in a half hour what is now going to take me the best part of 4 days if I'm lucky .I'm not a spring chicken any more just on old rooster and I take a lot of breaks during the day . Just keep plugging away at it  until it's done . 8)  

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