iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Why does everyone hate short logs so much?

Started by Crusarius, June 19, 2017, 08:16:45 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Crusarius

I am getting ready to start building a mill I am wondering why does everyone hate the short logs so much?

If you take the handling out and just talk about the milling operation. Why does everyone hate the short logs so much?

Is it because of the backstop/side support locations? The bed rail locations? The lifting arm width?

The more I can learn from you guys before I start building the better my mill will be.

Thanx...


btulloh

Short logs take just about as much work as long longs but you don't get much out them.  Also true with small diameter logs.  Short logs can require different handling too.  For instance, they don't work well on my log deck and I have to load them individually from the other side.
HM126

Magicman

QuoteIs it because of the backstop/side support locations? The bed rail locations? The lifting arm width?

Add turning to that and you have it about covered.  btulloh is also correct in that it takes at least as long and most times longer to saw short as it does long with much less yield.

A case in point; Because of the setup and toe board locations, I can saw 16' logs in about the same amount of time as 8' logs with twice the yield.  Dealing with a 4' log would probably take twice as long.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

red

What size sawmill are you building ? How much HP ? Etc. . what ever size mill you build you will find a sweet spot as in the length and diameter log.  Then you will look for that size log .
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

Crusarius

Looking at starting with the Linn Lumber 1900 36" basic kit. using 22 hp predator engine from HF and doing 24' track since that is the length steel comes. Means no seams for my track.

I been reading all the threads I can on everything on this forum. Really hoping to be very well educated and make all the right decisions before I start. Right now I am at the scary part. Getting ready to pull the trigger on the kit. Kinda dragging my feet because I hate parting with money.

Crusarius

Another reason I was kinda curious is because I have a bunch of real nice maple that was cut to roughly 20-30 long. I was thinking of making slabs out of those for plaques and other stuff like that. So I am thinking I want to set my mill up for long and short logs.

Could make some pretty amazing picture frames out of them as well.

Klicker

Like short logs if they belong to someone else I charge buy the hour for short ones. I tell them it cost more to do the short ones but it is there money and they can spend it any way they want. :)
2006 LT 40 HD

Ox

For any added mental support I might add for your benefit, I built the Linn Lumber 1900 mill several years ago.  It comes with pretty good plans.  I'm dyslexic at some of the most inopportune times so I had quite a bit of trouble building things backwards.  Imagine welding a whole sawframe assembly together with nicely beveled corners for good weld penetration and taking extreme care for straight, plumb and square and being real proud of a real nice job that hardly anyone will ever see, just to have it backwards the next morning when you head out to the shop.  And then cutting it all apart, cleaning and dressing the weld points and again welding carefully and then being satisfied it's perfect.  Then coming out the third day just to find it's backwards again.  It's enough to make a feller burn down his own shop.

I built my mill so I can mill 16'6" without having to mess around too much to get a last inch in somewhere to be able to mill it.  I can't remember if the track plans that come with the kit places the bunks for it, but two of my bunks are spaced to be able to mill 4' logs.  If you have any shorter ones you're interested in it's as easy as making an extra bunk assembly.  It'll help strengthen things up.  I think the original plans use something kinda chincy like 3x3 angle iron for the track rails but I used some heavy 1/2" thick 6x6 and made mine portable with a cut down mobile home axle under it.

I use a 13 hp Predator engine and it's done everything I need it to do, but just barely sometimes.  The one thing I would change is to put a bigger engine on.  It'll really help in keeping the RPMs constant in the cut.

I've had no problems with bearings or hardware that comes with the kit.  I've milled quite a lot over these last several years.  No idea how much.  I haven't had to realign anything on the mill since a careful setup the very first time.

Hope some of this helps.  If you have any specific questions, don't hesitate to ask and I'll see what I can do to help ya.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

caveman

If I were building a mill for my personal use, I would put two back stops and two bedrails closer together than all of the others just to facilitate easily supporting and clamping short logs for short projects such as end tables, benches and wall decorations.  A lot of what we saw is short and it is sometimes a challenge to get the logs clamped and supported properly.
Caveman

Skip


Magicman

I should have added that when I saw shorts, it is billed "hourly rate".


 


 


 
But the reward can be quite nice for the customer.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Crusarius

Ox, thank you so much. That information is extremely helpful. Can you tell me what package you started with?

Caveman, that was actually some of my thought pattern for asking this question. I think I am going to set it up for 30" as my shortest logs then maybe at 6' or 8' after that. That would put the stops 24" apart at the front of the mill and then anther one 6' from that. I think that will have me pretty well covered.

Right now I am planning on building the mill for my own use. But if I ever do get into milling for other ppl I will definitely think about the hourly rate for shorts.

Thanks everyone for your help. I am getting really excited wanting to build this. To bad I like to over analyze most everything I do. Definitely makes the process take a lot longer. Usually I find it is worth it in the end.

DDW_OR

Quote from: Crusarius on June 19, 2017, 10:17:36 AM
I been reading all the threads I can on everything on this forum. Really hoping to be very well educated and make all the right decisions before I start. .......

have you seen these Useful sawmill mods
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,7789.msg1397352/topicseen.html#msg1397352
"let the machines do the work"

Crusarius

yes, I read that entire thread. I need to reread it mostly because there was so much information I probably only retained 5% of what I read.

Ox

Crusarius - I started with the 1900 weld your own complete saw head kit.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Crusarius

That was originally what I thought about starting with but am now leaning more towards getting the basic kit with the raise lower kit.

JRWoodchuck

When I built mine I built backstop pockets that I could drop a backstop into every 6'6" (that was every other bunk support) I quickly added pockets on every bunk 3'3". I would put 2 clamps on there. 1 centered where you'll spend the most time milling and an extra for long stuff.
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Kbeitz

I found that seams on the bed rail give no problems.
But I do have 6 guide wheels.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,82853.0.html
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

WV Sawmiller

Cru,

   I think it has been pretty well addressed here. I guess the bottom line is most mills are not really designed for short logs. We get by but if I were modifying my mill for short log usage I would add another arm between my current lifting arms, a couple of rails near the center of the mill, a couple more side supports and an additional movable and an additional stationary stationary clamp and add toeboard near the center of the mill to level short logs and a second claw or a chain turner to rotate the log.

   I probably cut more 6' and under stuff than most miller and get useful pieces for benches, crotches for wood workers, etc.

   I guess the only thing I hate worse than sawing short logs is seeing them rot or turned into firewood.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

rasman57

I have a manual mill, the Boardwalk 40 and can cut bigger logs and up to 16 foot long.  I am a hobby sawyer that does not saw for others except friends who may have a small project log.  Me and my back love logs in the less than 8 foot length that I use for slabs and other hobby proects.  I have several big oak and ash logs in 24-30 inch diameter size but thankfully around 8 feet long only as they are capable of putting a whoopin on me for my small stash of slabs and stock.     If I was cutting lumber or for others, I would want long and fully-featured hydraulic help.

I love my Boardwalk 40 and based my purchase decision on much of what I learned here BUT I KNEW what I was going to primarily use it for......bigger heavy midwest hardwood slab logs and just a handful a year.     Your use and intent is as important as any other aspect of your plan and always factor in the future.  Of course if money was not a concern then fully-featured would be the obvious choice for versatility and no wrestling or swearing with either the logs or the wife. smiley_love

qbilder

Putting an extra bunk in at around 18" from another will allow you to mill short logs, plus easily handle the occasional burl you'll undoubtedly be asked to cut. I have the Linn 1900 & love the versatility.
God bless our troops

Crusarius

WV you think it would make more sense to do shorts on the center of the mill? or is that just what you would do since yours is already existing? That is an interesting thought. might be nicer for towing if I center the heavy structure on the mill.

There I go over thinking again :)

Crusarius

Ras thanx for the advice. right now my goal is to take all the trees down that are in the way of my shop. Turn them into lumber. then put them back up hopefully square and weather tight :)

My plan is to build my fabrication shop. I really hate having my wood shop and steel shop in the same space. makes one crazy mess.

I agree completely. If money was not an object I would probably have already ordered the top of the line woodmizer with all the kool toys :)

But I really do enjoy fabricating so I think this will be just as much fun as useful when completed.

WV Sawmiller

Cru,

   As I mentioned I was talking about mods to my existing mill and was thinking the center because that is where the current lifting arms and clamps are located. I guess a dedicated area at the front of the mill could be engineered with another toeboard and use the current front toeboard as a rear short log toeboard, add/design more bunks closer than the current ones for really short (Under 30"?) logs, and a different clamp there. While you were at it you might as well design a special jig for cutting cookies.

   You would have to move the balance point for the head for towing due to the redistribution/addition of more weight.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

dgdrls

Not so much short as small diameter,
Some of the folks who have purchased Walnut from
me actually commented they like it when I have 3 to 4 foot lengths'

D

Thank You Sponsors!