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Ford 9n with loader?

Started by 4speed, February 28, 2013, 12:57:13 PM

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thecfarm

The Funk Conversion kits were made really for belt power. As was said just remember you have a 20 hp tansmission with a 100hp motor,or what ever they produced, and you will never get in trouble. I saw one at a show once. It did sound some sweet.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Al_Smith

TRW had some conversions out to up the HP .On the Z-120 Continental engines of the TO 20 Fergies it used 3 5/16" pistons from a Massey 35 and cranked out 4-5 more drawbar HP which was a lot considering the original HP .It took the compression from 6.5 to 1 to 8.5 to 1 .

The Fords were dry sleeve engines but I think a kit was offered maybe original bore but higher compression pistons to enhance them a tad bit also .

Even if a person rebuild one if need to OEM specs either brand of tractor was made in a time they were made to run almost forever and so indeed they have all things considered .

All considered one of those little gems is one of the few things I know that have actually escalated in value over the years .

Okrafarmer

$500 is barely over scrap price. With loader and mower, you have at least two tons of iron. Any N running and driving is generally worth at least 1,000 regardless. The downside is, unless they're a special one, like the Funk conversions, etc, even restored they're rarely worth more than $3-4,000, if that.

If you count all N series as essentially the same tractor, they may be the most numerous such model series ever made. The 9N and 2N are mechanically very similar, but the 8N had some significant changes.

The numbers represent the model years they were introduced for. 1939, 1942, and 1948.

The 9N was the tractor that introduced and popularized the 3-point hitch.

Their simplicity, sheer numbers with few parts changes, combined with the popularity of the Ford cult, means that parts will always be available for those little ants even if parts get hard to come by for other tractors of the same time period.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

Al_Smith

Harry Furgeson designed the 3 point hitch .I think old Harry worked for John Deere at one time .

It seems old Harry was pretty crafty.  He conned Henry Ford into building the tractor ,9N I think at the time and he sold them .It was costing more to build them than they were wholesaling them  to Furgeson .So about 1947-48 Edsel Ford dissolved the agreement .

Ford built I think the 8N and Harry built the the TE 20 Fergys in England .A couple years later old Harry built a plant in Dearborn right close to Henry  and the TE 20 became the T0-20 .Later the TO-30-35-40 .Eventually became Massey  Furgeson .Ford ,became Ford New Holland .

Trivia: Sir Edmond Hillary used Fergy TE-20's on an expidition to the south pole in 1958.

tractormanNwv

You are correct Al_Smith, Harry Ferguson designed the 3-point hitch, got in a merger /agreement with Henry Ford, allowing him to build and install Harry's design on his tractors. All was good till Henry got more or less greedy,and the "handshake agreement" was dissolved between the 2.  then  in 1948 the lawsuit came about between Harry Ferguson and Henry the 2nd, that was after Henry passed away in 1947.  The hyd piston pump in the belly of the trans of the N-Series  was part of Harry Fergusons design also....that's why Ford changed to a pump powered by the flywheel of the engine in 1953 better known as the Jubilee, which was a Model NAA....1903-1953.... Which worked out for Ford, cause now they had "live hydrauilcs". Harry sued Ford for  $ 341,600,000.00 in 1948,  in 1952 Harry Ferguson was awarded  $ 9.25 million dollars.  And why did all this take place? Because after the "handshake agreement" was dissolved Henry the 2nd kept using / selling Harry Ferguson's 3-point design on his tractors, without paying Harry any royalties. Some call it business...others call it being a crook.

Okrafarmer

Just to clarify, when I said the 9N introduced and popularized the 3-point-hitch, I meant in the US. I was aware that Harry Fergie had designed it and used it on previous tractors before the 9N agreement.

Harry Ferguson worked for David Brown at one time in his early years. I don't know about the John Deere connection. Deere got a 3-point clone going for the A and B tractors in the early 50's and finalized onto their own 3-point system with the intro of the 50, 60, and 70 around 1952-53. Deere was kind of a late comer to the 3-point game.
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

tractormanNwv

I knew where you was coming from Okrafarmer.... smiley_beertoast

Jim

Al_Smith

For clarification some time lines are in order here .

Henry George Ferguson ,"Harry" was born in the late 1880's and lived in northern Ireland .Along with several other ventures he owned Harry  Ferguson Limited a sales company and one of their products was Overtime Tractors .Overtime was merely another name for Waterloo Boy which in that time period after about 1918 was owned by John Deere .The first tractor to wear the name John-Deere was the 1923 model D .So that is the link between Harry and John Deere .

Okrafarmer

Ah, that makes sense, Al. you educated me!
He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Psalm 91:1

Operating a 2020 Woodmizer LT35 hydraulic for Upcountry Sawmill, Dacusville, SC

Now selling Logrite tools!

Writing fiction and nonfiction! Check my website.

tractormanNwv

Even educated me a little Al.....and yes John Deere never built there way into tractors / engines, instead they bought there way in by purchasing a well known established company. I have a  Waterloo Boy 6hp hit and miss engine that was built in 1914,  well before John Deere.



  

beenthere

Yup, that looks like a John Deere alright.  ;D
Good invention Waterloo Boy had der.  8)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Al_Smith

Waterloo engine works was also started by a man named John,Frolich I believe or something like that.He was a thresherman and Deere was a blacksmith .

Corley5

Don't forget the John Deere "Dain"  :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

jbpaxton

Know what the 9N ford had in common with the John Deere 4010?
They had the same chief engineer for both projects.  Harold Brock became chief for Ford in 1938 for the 9N project, and later went to work for John Deere and became chief engineer for the New Generation project released in 1960.  He was head of the Product Engineering Center at Waterloo when I went to work there in 1967 and was still the boss when i left in 1974.  Some very interesting work  while I was there.
Jim


jbpaxton

Al_Smith

My father was assigned to the later portion of the project in Dagenham England when Ford first built the "dexra" .Had he not been called back home to head another project I would have finished my junior and senior year of high school  in England .

Slight side track but interesting .While my father was in England he met Denny Duesenberg of the car fame family as well as one on the Vincents of motorcyle fame who were both at that time design engineers for Ford on the little 3 cylinder diesel tractor .

4speed

Well, I finally got myself, my camera, and the tractor all in the same geographic location. An over run coupling was included in the deal along with a top link. Thank you for all the information and history. I have a soft spot for anything rusty and Ford. I have heard of the funk conversions. It probably won't happen, but I do have a 289 out of a '67 Mustang in the shop...


  

  

 

beenthere

4speed
Looks like you are good to go, or soon will be.
That a 5' rotary cutter ?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

4speed

Yes sir, beenthere. Hopefully I can do some horsetrading soon for a two bottom plow and a box blade. Any suggestions on what to look for?

thecfarm

I can remember the plow that we had for the NAA. I don't know if it was called a 2 bottom or one. The way it worked only one bottom would be in the  ground at one time. Got to the end and My Father would reach behind him and pull a level and the one that was plowing would come up and the one that was up in the air would drop down into the ground. This way the furrows would all be going the same way. I hope I remembers that right.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Al_Smith

An 8N was built to handle a 2 bottom ,12" mounted plow .You could probabley pull 2 14's  though .They will pull a 2 bottom 12 pull type but they will not pull them very deep unless it's real sandy soil .It doesn't run out of power but without the draft of the three point hitch it runs out of traction .

The little 3 point discs were about 6 feet .It will pull a 7 foot standard horse type .Might an 8 footer if it doesn't have much set to it .The scrapper blades  were around 6 feet wide .

It takes a 60" mower to get as wide as the rear wheels .I have a 6 foot Mott flail type for my Fergy but keep in the mind the Fergy has a TRW big bore kit which is 4-5 more HP .I'm sure a stock 8N would handle it but you won't be running in third gear .

If that engine is tired and the cylinders are not out of round like a football usually a set of piston rings and lapping the valves will do wonders for them .

chevytaHOE5674

I would agree on a 2 bottom 12" plow or maybe a 14" if your soil is fairly light . When looking for a plow make sure that it isn't worn out. Most of parts for those old plows are unavailable. Check the moldboards, points, shares, frogs and landsides of the plow to make sure they aren't worn thin/off, as your only option for repair would probably be a lot of hardfacing weld rod and a grinder to bring them back to life. Plowing with a worn out plow is no fun as it will leave a terrible finish and be hard to get back smooth, it will also pull hard on the tractor and burn extra fuel.

If you need a reference to what those parts of a plow are check this link.
http://www.ntractorclub.com/forums/manuals/messages/3835.html

Al_Smith

The saving grace being most Dearborn or Fergy branded plows really didn't get that much use .I think TSC might carry plow shares for the them which most would not need .

These things were made to replace a team of horses for use on small acrerage  .Itty little rascals like an Allis B or C were made to replace 1 horse .

Unlike a horse which you have to feed weather it works or not the little tractors didn't get fed unless they worked .Unlike the horse  you didn't get any fertilzer for the garden .

brendonv

Wow, I would have been all over that for that kinda money!

Good luck, I always liked the look of those little guys.
"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

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shinnlinger

Sweet machine.   Metal looks pretty good.   Score city!    Now what's up with the falcon in the field behind it?
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

4speed

Thanks again for the info, everyone. shinnlinger, that is a '64 hardtop I picked up a few years ago as a parts car for my other Falcon. It was a straight 6, 3 speed car. My other Falcon was my first car. '64 Hardtop 289, 4 speed, bucket seats and console. It is a Futura model with all the fancy (expensive to replace) trim. It is currently under the wrench. It was supposed to be back on the road by now, but a wife, 6 kids, and a small business later, it is looking more like a retirement project now. :D

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