The Forestry Forum

General Forestry => General Board => Topic started by: sawguy21 on May 11, 2019, 08:49:08 PM

Title: Mill closures
Post by: sawguy21 on May 11, 2019, 08:49:08 PM
More bad news. Tolko Industries is closing the Quesnel BC plant permanently with the loss of 150 jobs in the mill and more in the bush. They say it is not sustainable due to lack of timber supply due to the pine beetle and poor markets. This hits a community of less than 10,000 hard.
They are also cutting shifts at the Kelowna operation with another 90 people unemployed. It's not pretty.
Title: Re: Mill closures
Post by: WDH on May 12, 2019, 07:37:38 AM
This is why some of the Canadian lumber companies have moved to the Deep South. 
Title: Re: Mill closures
Post by: tule peak timber on May 12, 2019, 09:00:02 AM
I have been reading about some mills in the NW US announcing that they are not buying logs at some locations.My readings have been brief at best.....I'm having trouble correlating a booming economy with these stop buys ?
Title: Re: Mill closures
Post by: KirkD on May 12, 2019, 10:41:41 AM
You should see the amount of high grade logs on the shore in North Bend Oregon getting loaded on ships and being exported. Compare what you see there with what you see at some of the local mills and you know we are exporting our best stuff.
Title: Re: Mill closures
Post by: Larry on May 12, 2019, 10:49:10 AM
Some close and some open....

South Arkansas had a new $190 million mill open last fall.  Another mill with a 10 million upgrade re-opened a couple of weeks ago.

A few years ago, at my local lumber yard douglas fir was cheaper than SYP.  We don't have douglas fir within a thousand miles of here while SYP is local.  Never could understand.  Tables have turned and now douglas fir is more expensive than SYP :'( :'(.  Must be some correlation that I don't understand.

Title: Re: Mill closures
Post by: tule peak timber on May 12, 2019, 10:58:03 AM
Why I am not in the stock market, I don't get it .
Title: Re: Mill closures
Post by: sawguy21 on May 12, 2019, 12:12:45 PM
Quote from: WDH on May 12, 2019, 07:37:38 AM
This is why some of the Canadian lumber companies have moved to the Deep South.
They have not left, they bought mills that process species not available here to get into new markets. Kirk, we see the same thing and it is heartbreaking. Our best is going to Asia for framing, the lumber I see peddled in many lumberyards is little better than firewood. :-[
Title: Re: Mill closures
Post by: tule peak timber on May 12, 2019, 12:22:49 PM
Flying out of Atlanta after the Sawing project at Jake's, Customsawyer, I was seated next to some Canadian and Malaysian guys that talked about building a big mill in Georgia. They travel worldwide building mills. We yapped across the entire country.......
Title: Re: Mill closures
Post by: dgdrls on May 17, 2019, 07:51:33 PM
Tolko Industries to permanently close Quest Wood mill in Canada (https://www.lesprom.com/en/news/Tolko_Industries_to_permanently_close_Quest_Wood_mill_in_Canada_89003/)
Link to @sawguy21 (http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=1763) post

Canfor announces temporary shutdown of B.C. lumber mills | CBC News (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canfor-temporary-shutdown-bc-lumer-mills-1.5110097)
found this one as well. 

D
Title: Re: Mill closures
Post by: Stuart Caruk on May 17, 2019, 10:36:25 PM
A large local mill just told their independent loggers they are no longer needed. A buddy just bought 3 new shovels and has huge payments with no more work.... the mills are running at very reduced capacity and not buying anything they don't need. Boom to bust it appears.

Construction is doing O/K, but nothing like it was years ago. It's starting to look like a repeat of 2006 and people need to save their cash reserves.
Title: Re: Mill closures
Post by: Southside on May 17, 2019, 11:06:18 PM
Quote from: Stuart Caruk on May 17, 2019, 10:36:25 PMIt's starting to look like a repeat of 2006 and people need to save their cash reserves.


I don't see it that way.  People don't want commodity junk any longer.  Lot of remodeling, additions, barns, etc being built and Lowes just does not cut it for quality.  The big operations either can't or won't adapt to the changes - and for that I am grateful - so they go the way of the dinosaur.  
Title: Re: Mill closures
Post by: Ron Wenrich on May 18, 2019, 06:40:41 AM
I think Southside makes a pretty good point.  My BIL recently did some remodeling and extension to his son's house.  He did remodeling as a profession before he retired.  He got the wood from a big box store.  He used to buy from the smaller lumber yards, but they seem to be going by the wayside.  All the wood moved.  He had walls that moved as much as ¾", and they were well built.  He had to have his drywall inspected before he could finish.  The reason is there is to much nail pop in walls.  That doesn't come from shoddy work, it comes from shoddy lumber.

The industry has partial blame for this.  They have been forcing junk lumber on the unknowing consumer.  Forest rotations continue to get shorter.  That leads to smaller trees, and more juvenile wood in the lumber.  Growth rings are very wide, and that all leads to more unstable wood.  Throw in the automation in the mills and you are hard pressed to find anything with a boxed heart.  Sawing process doesn't take any of the stress out of the log, but puts it all into the product.  Add that the kilning process is more of a cosmetic process than an actual drying process.

Consumers are also to blame.  They don't have the foggiest idea about buying wood.  Different projects can use different qualities of wood.  But, many have no idea what that stamp on there means.  Neither do the workers at the big box store.  Builders will use low quality wood to win contracts.  When the final consumer doesn't like the finished product, the builders turn to alternative products.  Siding has gone from wood to aluminum to plastic.  Floors are becoming plastic.  Studs are becoming steel.  Furniture is becoming pressed board.  

That includes industrial consumers.  The business next to me puts boxes on the back of delivery trucks.  These trucks use wood between the box and the frame.  We sold some to them, and they complained about it.  We didn't do any surfacing or drying.  But, they wanted cheap.  After that, they went to processor who didn't dry wood.  The wood moved as it dried.  A lot of it got thrown out.  I'm sure they never did any economic study on how much the actual wood cost, considering waste as a factor.  

There are 3 legs in economics for purchasers.  Quality, low price and speed of delivery.  Pick any two.  Quality is usually the one lagging.

Title: Re: Mill closures
Post by: DDW_OR on May 18, 2019, 03:32:54 PM
log prices in NW Montana are 8 to 10 per ton.
Self loaders charge $110 per hour for the whole time they are away from their home.

my trees are worth more as firewood than lumber.

will try selling Live edge Fir slabs
Title: Re: Mill closures
Post by: tule peak timber on May 18, 2019, 04:11:18 PM
When I was looking for property last year in NW Montana I hardly ever saw a cedar over 3 inches in diameter. White fir was what the loggers were leaving behind on land that was for sale.I was in Heron to Plains area. Lots of stumps...... :o