central boiler e classic maintainence

[titanic]

I have a central boiler e classic 1450.  Was great last season but the heat exchangers kept getting harder and harder to clean and by the end of last season I can't get the cleaning tool through 3 of the 7 exchangers.  I was wondering if using a creosote sweeping log would be beneficial or harmful to the exchangers of an e classic.  I have never heard of anyone using these on an e classic.  concerned about those exchangers becoming completely clogged. 

[doctorb]

Titanic-

Welcome to the Forum. I don't fully understand your question. My heat exchangers are in my basement, near my oil furnace, and have no cleaning necessary. I don't have a 1450.  I have a 2300. Are you talking about the air intakes within the firebox?  Pics?  A little more info, please.

[beenthere]

Maybe the combustion chamber exchanging fire heat to the water in the boiler via tubes is the heat exchanger titanic is talking about.

A lot of creosote will buildup there, as the water is cool (max of around 200 deg).

Is the 1450 designed for burning only dry wood?

[Roger2561]

I believe the exchangers Titanic is talking about are located in the OWB.  I'm not that familiar with 1450 for I have the 1400 which somewhat differs in design.  One of the differences that I'm aware of in the 1450's design is the heat exchangers are a series of vertical tubes where the 1400 is a simple plenum.  I have read on other OWB sites that these tubes can easily buildup with creosote and PITA to keep open.  I do not have any answers other than clean them perhaps weekly and keep the firewood as dry as possible. 

Titanic, have you spoken with your CB rep regarding a possible solution to your problem? 

Another difference that I know about with the 1450's is that the air holes in the firebox are much easier to clean of creosote buildup as opposed to the 1400.  The 1450 has removable panels in the rear corners making it easier to clean that area where the 1400 doesn't have that luxury. 

Also, at the end of the heat season, I clean my CB 1400 thoroughly before putting it to bed for the summer.  This way everything stays "loose" and easier to remove any creosote buildup.  It doesn't have time to harden over the summer.  I don't know if you did this or not, I'm simply stating that's how I do it.

Good luck with your CB 1450.  As with all new technology, there is a learning curve and once you learn what works best for you, it'll get easier.

Roger 

[Timber346]

I have a 1450 and haven't had any troubles with creosote build up in the tubes and i burn my stove year round.
I always burn seasoned wood and put a scoop of Ash Trol in the fire box every time i load it.
I don't think it would hurt anything if you wanted to burn a creosote log. 

[titanic]

When I say heat exchangers I'm referring to the exhaust tubes in the back of the furnace.  My wood is well seasoned and I was cleaning them monthly but each time it got harder and harder to pull the cleaner through.  I also used ash trol although that seems like a waste of money.  Can someone tell me what the proper cleaning procedure is in season and when shutting down for summer.  Those corner slide pieces were so seized up that I didn't take them out, I just scraped the walls.  last winter was first season. 

[AsaG]

You might try using a stainless steel furnace brush before attempting to use the CB provided heat exchanger cleaning tool.  A plumbing/HVAC supply house should have a size that would work for around $15.00  I used the CB part#310 - Flue Brush Kit to keep my 2400 cleaned out.  I just upgraded to the 3200 and have yet to fire it up so my cleaning methods may require an update before all is said and done.  I'm expecting those corner baffles to be a real PIA to remove but, as of yet, can't comment.  If you are seeing anything more than, potentially caked, fly ash in the heat exchanger, something is wrong.  There shouldn't be creosote anywhere besides the firebox.  Ashtrol is a ph modifier to help neutralize acidic combustion by-products and prevent corrosion; it won't do much to prevent the types of problems you describe.

[doctorb]

I think AsaG is onto something.  I don't understand why creosote would build up after gassification.  I only see it in the firebox and I assume that it's created by incomplete combustion in that initial burning chamber.  Something is not right if you see that much creosote after the gassification phase is supposed to have taken place. Did you see a lot of smoke out of your chimney most of the time?

[titanic]

There are times when it smokes a lot but I don't think its excessive.  When I first cleaned it the cleaning tool pulled out some deposits, creosote I guess.  Then each time I cleaned it the process got harder and harder.   I couldn't even get the chain to drop down it was so clogged I had to ram a rod up through to make enough room for the chain. Now the chain will drop down but no matter how hard I pull the cleaning tool won't go through.  These e classics are finicky and more than once the fire has gone out which means you wake up to a cold house but as I get better with it I'm satisfied with it other than this cleaning process.  I feel like in time it will be completely clogged.   I appreciate everyones responses.  this is a nice forum!

[AsaG]

If there is that much build-up in your heat exchangers, there is almost no way your reaction chamber is reaching the temperatures needed for proper gasification.  If your wood is DRY and you have no leaks from the water jacket into the firebox, the only thing left to cause a problem is lack of air. 

Make sure all power is disconnected from the unit! The first things I'd check are the air inlets in the main air box.  Disconnect the air inlet elbows and make sure the passages are clear all the way into the firebox and air charge tube above the refractory.  While there, make sure the closure plates are still solidly connected to the solenoids.  There have been cases where the bolts between the closure plate and solenoid degrade and come apart.  When this happens, air is not introduced when the controller calls for it.  Also, when reassembling the air inlet elbows, make certain you've reconnected the wiring exactly as it was disconnected.  An error won't cause permanent damage but will screw up the operation of the stove.  If all checks out, we'll need to investigate the controller and/or solenoids.

I checked with a friend of mine who has experience with the corner baffles.   He uses a propane torch to heat up and melt the crapola around the baffle slide mounts.  He claims his slide right out without a problem once they are heated.  I'm thinking welding gloves would be helpful here.

[beenthere]

titanic

My wood is well seasoned

Double check what "well seasoned" wood is. That would be my first suspicion that you think it is, but isn't.
And the second would be loading too much wood in the box for the heat needed at the time.

And it just may be you have very well seasoned wood, it burns quick, and the fire is shut down quick and just smolders thus causing creosote and no after-burning of the gases.

All sorts of combinations that may be causing the creosote and getting the right combination isn't always a simple thing to do. Most of us have to work out what is best for our stove needs.

[doctorb]

While I agree that the fuel could be part of the equation, I don't think it's just the wood moisture content.  This has to be incomplete combustion to create the kind of build up you're talking about.  A new unit like that (upgraded technology over the 1400) should smoke very, very little, and only at warm up times after the burn cycle has been idle for awhile.  IMO, this is definitley a different problem.  Could be blocked air intakes, blocked solenoid, computer mismatch of solenoids and fans, fan failure, water leak......I'd be looking for a mechanical problem in air flow as the most likely culprit.

[thecfarm]

titanic,welcome to the forum. There's a few guys on here that can really help you.Listen to them!!! Lots of past threads too. They will get you up and going.  ;D

[go green]

Everything in the exhaust train, reaction chamber, heat exchanger and chimney should be powder dry ash.  If creosote gets in exchanger area it is very few possible causes.  Operating with the bypass open is the most common cause.  There is a very good video on fueling tips on the centralboiler.com site that you should review if you are having issues.  If there is a mechanical failure that allows air to leak into the firebox with the dampers are supposed to be closed it can cause very slow combustion with smoke passing into reaction chamber and exchanger area without complete combustion and will build up black combustion byproducts that are difficult to clean.  Check solenoids and air intake dampers.  The solution to cleaning the heat exchanger area if creosote has formed there is just get a good fire going and be sure there is good airflow into the reaction chamber.  This will burn out the black deposits.  You can visually see the fire in the reaction chamber by carefully opening reacion chamber cleanout door while furnace is in the burn cycle.  Most of the issues occur because there is not adequate air flow maintained.  Watch the fueling tips video which explains using the cleaning rod through the ash bed each time you refuel to keep the airflow maintained well for very efficient burn.  Also be sure no restriction caused by reaction chamber too full of ash.  If the exchanger area is too plugged to get any exhaust flow through it to burn out deposits you will need to clean them out when the water temperature hot.  That will make the deposits softer to clean out.  Once you are back up to normal operating this will never have to occur again with the simple firing practices that keep it operating at top efficiency.

[Jack72]

Titanic if you PM me I can  give my number to you and make some suggestions that has helped me   I clean my exchangrs every other weekend other wise you won't  get the chain through. The solenoid elbows need to be cleaned every month or so.           I have a trick to get the chain through when you call.    AsaG.  You have the same design on the 3200 exchangers are upright also.      This will be my fourth season with my 1450 this winter

[grousehunter]

Good Afternoon,
I was wondering if anyone has an e-classic 2300 dual fuel that they have modified by removing the gas igniters and burners?
We have one that continues to fail and require maintenance every year that we would like to change over to wood only by possible welding steal plates over the gas igniter and burner.
We ordered replacement parts but central boiler is slow to get them out and we need to start the boiler.
Our other e-classic 2300 wood only seems to operate with far less issues and expensive repairs.
Any recommendations on a sound approach?

Thanks