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BAND BLADE PROFILING

Started by lamar, November 30, 2005, 10:42:04 PM

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lamar

I finally got something going on a sharpener setter combo. I seem to have the bugs worked out but would like to see if anyone can tell me the best grit wheel and where to get a good price on a diamond wheel dresser??? I picked op a grinder motor(12volt) and after having it sit around for 2years I now have a simple set up and the first grind was not an improvement but after a minor adj. on the wheel angle (now 10deg.+) it cuts good and it still ant broke after 600ft of big syp. Also this blade is old and has a kink in it oops ;D. Ive been getting by with a dremel and 5/16 to3/8 stone but hard to keep from a hollow grind which cuts good but not too long. The setter also much of an improvement . I kept reading here and actually learned something AA ???I think. Cant get over this old beat up blade used to wander so I took it off  because I couldn't set teeth. Now it plowed thru some nasty syp and made some good lumber even sawed up a 28" crotch to see if pine crotch has anything to brag about

logwalker

Good going Lamar, Are you profiling the whole tooth or just the Face? LW
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Gilman

Diamond wheel dresser,

Harbor freight has a couple of different styles.  I have the one that looks like a shaving razor.  It'll shape a wheel real fast.
WM LT70, WM 40 Super, WM  '89 40HD
Cat throwing champion 1996, 1997, 1999. (retired)

mike_van

Lamar - Pictures of your setup????????? Please -  :)
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

lamar

LOG WALKER; I'm using the full width of wheel with a proper radius, I hope and plunging to just clean up at the root. I have a tendency to think in terms of machine shop and you never grind on the relief or back side of a drill cutter etc. Only the cutting edge and in the case for a flexible cutter the radius at the gullet is the week point. It seems to me to cause more harm than good to dress from the tip of tooth back to gullet also very tricky. Gilman; I will check them again I checked before and no diamond wheel dressers  maybe I didn't use the right words. I haven't checked the big cat. either. Mike: I have never posted a picture in 4yrs. or so Ive been on FF :P eh? Its quite ugly I used a flywheel as a base so I could drill and tap into cast iron and everything is tacked together. I might see how much is involved in posting a picture. I bum my wifes camera if I want to email pics. I guess if I can look at everyone else's pics I should get of my posterior :D Thanks for the response.

logwalker

Hey lamar, I just starting posting 2 days ago and it wasn't too bad. Go to for index page and in middle of page is forum called "behind the forum". The first post is by DanG about posting. i followed instructions and it wentwell. The download od the compression software went fast and worked very well. We all like to see pictures ;) LW
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Modat22

If you have picture of the setup and can't get her to post email it to me and I'll post it for ya. I to would like to see your setup.
remember man that thy are dust.

Brian_Rhoad

If you are "plunge grinding" try a grinding wheel that is as thick as the tooth spacing. 3/4" spacing use a 3/4" thick wheel. 7/8" spacing use a 7/8" thick wheel. Shape the wheel to match the tooth profile. You really should try to grind the whole tooth profile for best results.

lamar

I wonder if this post is to old but I will try my first pic.



lamar

seems like I covered some up ??? At least I got something on. I appreciate some of you willing to post for me but I had to give it a try. Im still learning how to grind teeth somewhat the right way so far big improvenent and the setter makes the blade stay straight in those big syp. My question is how do the auto machines work? Do they grind the whole profile of tooth or just the face and the radius and how wide of wheel do they use. Also if I need to dress the rest of the back of tooth I like the idea Brian said about a wide wheel and  shape profile on it . Im not sure my 12v motor will pull that much wheel.I noticed that most blades from dealers must not of been ground cuse the face of tooth looks like the rest or the heat treat them or something. Ive got more pics of the same jig if any wants a laugh.Need more smarts

Tom

Lamar,
I have a Wood Mizer sharpener and it works good.  It's a modified chainsaw chain sharpener but has had a cam installed so that the grinding wheel will follow the profile.

There are threads on the forum describing sharpening and tooth configuration.  Also some info in the knowledge base.

In a nutshell, and it's just my opinion, the full profile should be ground.  Minimum pressure on the grinding stone preserves the set. 

The face grind is so minimal as to not even produce many sparks.  the gullet creates the height of the tooth and should be ground accurately and smooth.  The tooth should be a minimum of 3/16" tall from tip to transition curve into the gullet.

On a grinder using a cam, the majority of the sharpening is done on the back of the tooth.

My grinding wheel is 1/4" x 5 1/2" and I think the grit is 80.  A diamond stone is used to shape the grinding wheel such that it profiles the tooth's transition curve properly and produces a tall tooth.

I would think that you could lose a lot of profile accuracy by plunge cutting the entire profile at once.  You also probably apply a lot of pressure to the teet from the spinning wheel and that might change set.

I really meant "teeth".   Darn fat fingers.  :-\

getoverit

Quote from: Tom on December 06, 2005, 11:21:44 PM
You also probably apply a lot of pressure to the teet from the spinning wheel and that might change set.

I wanna say something SOOOOOO bad  :D :D :D :D


All I can think of is.....OUCH !!!
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

ely

i thought i stumbled into the wrong forum for a minute. :D

lamar

WHAT??? ;D Im still loking for a diamond stone. Also how does a auto grinder allow for odd lengths where the pitch wont come out even? Do you just set finish and start at the weld?

Tom

yes, when I started I started at the weld so that I knew where I was.   Before too long, it didn't matter.  I could tell by the set or the sound of the sharpener that I had been to that spot.   

The sharpener has a switch on it that is controlled by a magnet placed on the blade.  When that magnet comes back around it turns the sharpener off.  ;D

unless the pitch is way off, the pushrod will compensate for a longer or shorter pitch.  That doesn't mean that you get a good sharpening on a 3/4 blade if you have a 7/8 or 1" cam on the machine.  But, it does mean that the short pitch at the weld won't upset the apple cart when the grinding stone hits it.   You can hear the difference but the tooth will usually be ground to the same shape as the others.

I'm talking about 2 separate tools too.  A setter and a sharpener.   Moon had/has one that'll do both but I've found out lately that it sets and sharpens in two separate operations.

I found the diamond dressing stones at Ace Hardware one time.  I know you can buy one from Wood Mizer because I still have my original one and use it.

That's a pretty cool Santa Hat I've got, isn't it.  :D :D   Jeff gave it to me.  ;D

mike_van

Nice hat Tom, you look like the "real deal" -  Lamar, thanks for the info. I tried to make a similar grinder years back, but couldn't get good results from it. I just send them to Cooks now.  Someday if a good used grinder came along, I would probably buy one -  What I saw now just can't justify the price for a new one.
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

getoverit

not sure of y'all are interested or not, but there's a WM sharpener/setter combo on e-bay right now... current bid price is only $56.50

says its brand new/never used

http://cgi.ebay.com/WOOD-MIZER-BLADE-CHAIN-SHARPENER_W0QQitemZ7570623074QQcategoryZ61788QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

beenthere

Is it true that these sharpeners will work for chainsaw chains/teeth as well as bandsaw blades?  Learn something everyday, if so.  :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Gilman

Dang Lamar,
Harbor freight doesn't have it anymore.  I wish I'd of bought two of them now.

This place has some dressing & shaping stones.
http://shorinternational.com/sharp&true.htm

These are similar to the ones that come from Woodmizer
WM LT70, WM 40 Super, WM  '89 40HD
Cat throwing champion 1996, 1997, 1999. (retired)

Tom

This is no automatic model. It has no cam or feed system.
Yes, it will grind chainsaw chains.(with the proper sized grinding stone)

In my opinion the sharpener is not much better than the 4 1/2" side grinder
being joked about earlier.  It's use requires a lot of free handing and it's
accuracy would be only for face grinding.  You would probably have to provide
your own indexing.  Grinding gullets and tooth backs requires a cam to do properly.

The setter is pretty basic and worth bidding on.  It's upgrade, if you desired,
are readily available through Wood Mizer.  I enlarged the picture considerable
to be able to look at the details and it looks like the setter is of an older design.
That isn't too important since the upgrades have been toward ease of use and
stabilization to prevent drift of adjustments rather than accuracy.  
The basic setter is the same.


lamar

Thanks for all the info. I would like to see a pro sharpener in action just to see how it is done. So far it seems that the thing I make above is am improvement on my old way(no setting and  rotary stone in a dremel ) no more waves and diving,stay Sharp longer and clears chips out of cut on those big syp logs which makes me think my 25Kohler has a turbo  8) The clock is still running I make other mods. so I'm not sure what I did good or bad. I also used the caliper tension set to see if I had enough. I was way low so I went to about .003 stretch and so far no premature blade breakage.

Tom

Lamar

What designates success?


Don't fix what ain't broke.  :D

beenthere

Tom gave an excellent demo at the PiggyRoast last summer. He was setting up Jeff's sharpner equipment and in doing so, covered many fine details. He worked for coffee. Keep his cup full, and he just kept on going and going and going...... :)
Course he had to put up with a lot of comments from the gallery too, but he handled it well.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Kevin_H.

i agree, an excellent demo from tom at the pig roast, matter of fact I think we should all bring blades for tom next time. ;D

I beleive that the way jeff had it figured he would buy enough blades to last until tom came back for some more piggy. 8)
Got my WM lt40g24, Setworks and debarker in oct. '97, been sawing part time ever since, Moving logs with a bobcat.

Tom

Jeff picked up that sharpening like he'd been doing it all his life and keeps his blades razor sharp now.  He even found an adustment on the sharpener that I had not gotten properly seated.   Sharpening isn't hard, it just takes some finesse' and some time. Not the kind of job that you could associate with a bulldozer.....   more like a tea spoon.   :D

Getting in a hurry and rushing the sharpener is most people's failure.  I don't have usually have a problem with taking things slo-o-w-w---w-----w---w-----w-----z------z-----z--z--zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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