Getting a WoodMizer started?

Husky · January 06, 2007, 03:47:10 PM

I have a woodmizer lt 40 with the 51 cat on it and it does not start in the cold weather. I have been lucky so far because of the mild winter. I called woodmizer and cat all they have is the 110 plug ins? I don't have power were I mill is there any other way to heat it up so it will start? A friend of mine uses heater hoses from his truck to his skidder and that works well but he made those and was wondering if there was something I could buy like that?

Burlkraft · January 06, 2007, 03:57:41 PM

They make diesel fired heating units that have circulating coolant pumps in them.

We sell Wabasto and have for years. They are reliable and you can get a timer for them so they start an hour or two before you do. ;D ;D ;D

I don't know where you are at but most truck dealers and truck parts stores sell some type of heater like it.

Husky · January 06, 2007, 04:02:29 PM

How much are they? Does it have a small engine on it or something to make it run or a pilot light?

leweee · January 06, 2007, 04:11:25 PM

You could install an INVERTER in your tow vehicle.(converts 12V to 110)
Handy for power tools on the job too. ;D

logwalker · January 06, 2007, 04:23:37 PM

Will it start with a small amount of ether sprayed into the intake. I've never seen one that wouldn't respond to this. Talk to Cat if you arn't comfortable with the idea. Joe

Gary_C · January 06, 2007, 07:03:56 PM

I am not familiar with the cold start on the 51 HP Cat, but you should start with your manual. If you have a intake manifold heater, don't use ether. Also, what weight oil are you running. I have had good luck with some of the new synthetic oils like a Cenex 5W-40 diesel oil. On my 33 HP Kubota, never had a problem cold starting with the glow plugs.

Dave Shepard · January 06, 2007, 07:06:01 PM

Make sure you don't spray starting fluid into anything with glow-plugs or heated air intakes, you'll get more than you bargained for! I am assuming that the Cat doesn't, or it would start right up and run. I don't know why they switched from Kubota, they are one of the best small diesels you can buy, and they have no problem starting well below zero.

Dave

MartyParsons · January 06, 2007, 07:06:55 PM

No either or starting fluid, this is a glow plug engine. Engine damage will result if the glow plugs are on and the starting fluid will explode.

logwalker · January 06, 2007, 07:41:04 PM

If the glow plugs were on then the engine would start. I still maintain that a small amount of ether sprayed into the air cleaner will start the engine without a problem. Now as to the core problem, how should he diagnose the glow plugs?

Furby · January 06, 2007, 07:47:31 PM

The glow plugs are off because he DON'T have power where the mill is.

BBTom · January 06, 2007, 08:07:18 PM

Are the glow plugs automatic like the Kubota?

I turn the key to the "on" position and wait till the glow plug light goes off, then turn the key to start, and the kubota jumps to life almost instantly. if I don't wait for the glow plugs to get hot, it will crank quite a while before it gets the cylinder hot enough to fire.

Furby · January 06, 2007, 08:10:52 PM

They are 110 volt based on his first post, but I was wondering if he could install 12v glowplugs?

logwalker · January 06, 2007, 08:12:30 PM

I am assuming the glow plug circuit is 12v. I think he was refering to a 110v block heater.

Just a clarification on the ether issue. Too much ether is a bad thing for any diesel, not just glow plug engines. I don't want someone taking my recommendation and punching holes in their pistons. There definitely can be too much of a good thing. I find it is about right when the engine still has to crank for a few seconds before firing and then starts.

But then I learned my mechanics under a shade tree in N.E. Arkansas.

Robert Long · January 06, 2007, 11:09:29 PM

I can always count on my Kabota engine starting, it's why I got a WM with that engine!

It stays out and has started in very wet weather as well as very cold weather.

Contact WM for a better answer......

Robert

LOGDOG · January 06, 2007, 11:14:10 PM

I'm going to take a stab at this and guess that the "110V" that he referred to was for an "engine block heater". I'm thinking that that glow plugs would operate off the 12V system with the partial turn of the key. If I don't let my glow plugs heat on my F350 6.0L diesel she can be a bit cold blooded in the winter. Hope you figure it out HUSKY.

LOGDOG

ShowMeSawyer · January 06, 2007, 11:30:23 PM

I have the 51hp Cat engine and the glow plugs are 12v. A block heater sounds like a good idea on below freezing mornings..... if one has access to 110v AC......portable generator?

SMS

Burlkraft · January 06, 2007, 11:39:42 PM

Quote from: Husky on January 06, 2007, 04:02:29 PM
How much are they? Does it have a small engine on it or something to make it run or a pilot light?

It is a small diesel burner. Has an electronic ignition system. Draws very small battey voltage to operate. One to heat the small cat would also be pretty compact. Lots of states have idle laws now and truckers have to keep the cab and the engine warm without the engine idling. There has been great advances in them in the last 10 years. They used to operate on gas...and hardly ever worked and most burned up sooner or later.....

;D ;D

Percy · January 07, 2007, 12:23:32 AM

An easy bandade untill you fix them Cat Glowplugs is a 10 to 15 foot length of flex hose exhaust pipe that will fit over your pickup tail pipe. Put the flex hose on your tail pipe while the truck is idling and put the other end on the intake manifold of the Cat motor. Run the pickup for about 5 or ten miniutes and...Walla . The Cat starts right up. I LOVE my kubota and am glad I didnt wait for the Catterpillar. Its always cold up here and the easiest thing to start at minus 20 at my operation is the kubota ;D

Gary_C · January 07, 2007, 12:24:53 AM

Ya, I have one of those Webasto heaters on a forwarder. It came built into the machine and most of the harvesters and forwarders sold now have them as standard equipment. They are the greatest thing since er, I can't remember what. ;D

I just set the timer for an hour before I get to work. It starts automatically, pumps hot water thru the engine block, the cab heater, and the hydraulic reservoir. It even turns the heater fan on in the cab. When I arrive, the cab is warm, the engine starts right up as soon as I hit the starter, and the hydraulic system is ready to go to work. 8)

Many older forestry machines that have to sit in the woods at night have those connecters on the coolant system to circulate hot water from your pick up truck. They are usually just regular farm hydraulic connectors. They are not a recommended addition for your pick up because the shock of that ice cold water flowing into your hot engine can crack your block. It will absolutely void your engine warranty.

gmmills · January 07, 2007, 12:49:38 AM

Husky,

Have you checked to make sure all 4 glow plugs are working properly? These engines will not start properly with out all 4 working. Does your engine fire when cycling the glow plugs but not stay running after a cold start ? Then you cycle the plugs again and it starts runs for few seconds then stalls. If the above is the case, welcome to the hard starting CAT club. Last winter was the first with my Lt70 and was very upset about the way my CAT started. Talked with WM and was told some start hard and some don't

Was sent a 110 volt block heater. Luckily have access to electricity. It only needs to be plugged in for 20 mins. It will then fire and stay running. Considering you don't have electric I can understand why you are frustrated.

All is not lost. ;) ;) This engine will start an stay running when cold if the throttle lever is held away from the idle position. I usually take a small piece of banding and stick it between the idle stop screw and the linkage lever. Depending on how cold it is you may need something a little thicker. As the engine starts and stays running,as little as 5 seconds, you can remove the shim.Careful not to remove it too soon or the engine will stop running. It takes a little patience but you can get it to start and stay running. May take a few tries.

When these engines are shut down the governor automatically sets the fuel delivery in the injection pump to start position, maximum fuel delivery. The external linkage is in the idle position. As the engine is cranked , fires, and runs the governor returns the internal linkage to the idle position. The fuel delivery is decreased to a point where the engine stops running. Shimming the linkage off the idle stop screw will keep more fuel delivered to the engine and it will stay running.

My Cat sure doesn't start cold as well as my previous Kubota did with 4000 hrs on it.

johnjbc · January 07, 2007, 06:39:51 AM

Have you tried cycling the glow plugs. On both my Kubota and my Dodge truck I turn the key to the position where the glow plug light is on. When it goes out instead of trying to start it I turn the key to off and then back on. This resets the Glow Plug Timer and gets the Glow Plugs warmer. If it is really cold I do it 3 times
It also helps to open the throttle open a little like gmills is doing with the shim

Chris Burchfield · January 07, 2007, 08:09:48 AM

Husky, I've experienced the same with my 51 Cat. A few months ago, WM sent me an add on to protect the glow plugs from overheating. I was not sure that this change had caused the hard to start. There is not a glow light like some of you describe. There is a chart for temperature and seconds to wait after you've turned the ignition on. I experienced the hard to start last year on Superbowl Sunday. It was cold, hadn't started the mill in a few days, I don't watch ball and was out to saw for a friend. It would start then die like it wasn't getting enough fuel. gmmills does sound like he has found the ticket with the shim. I have just over 65 hours on the meter now. It was cool last night and woke up to rain this morning. Rain should quit this a.m. and will go out and experiement with the shim. Thanks gmmills, I thought it was just mine.

just_sawing · January 07, 2007, 09:19:24 AM

Yes join the Cat Club. The other problem you may have is trying to start you blow the 225 fuse for your effort. What I have done is install a pig tail to the starter and in cold weather I go ahead and put jumper cables on the starter and do the same as the previous with the idle. This gives me a full power heat and crank which does not put the Altenator in full charge which will kill the engine in cold weather.

Husky · January 07, 2007, 03:39:43 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions. It starts up for a few seconds and dies and it will do that and never run? My tractor starts rough and smoothes out to a idle if it sputters it going to run unlike the mill if its cold forget it find something else to do for the day. I will try try some of the tricks I read though. Thanks again

Polly · January 07, 2007, 07:50:21 PM

8)if the cat has glow plugs unhook them it is apperant they are not working then use starting fluid start turning engine and then spray fluid into intake air system also put power service fuel conditioner in your fuel oil or any good brand fuel conditioner will help :P if this dont work stay home and build big fire in fireplace :D :D :D