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Hard Maple tear out

Started by Peter Drouin, February 25, 2012, 09:14:59 PM

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Peter Drouin

Hi all, I tried to turn this thing and am not sure if the wood is to green or my tool is to dull. the wood has been in the barn for a year with wax ends.the tools I have are not the best :D. I thought some one might have an Idear.

 
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

beenthere

Tear-out would likely be either/or a dull tool or the wrong cutting angle to the wood.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

WDH

It also looks like tension wood, where there was pronounced sweep in the log.  Tension wood fuzzes up like that when planed.  However, I am not a turner and do not know if tension wood is an issue in turning.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

CHARLIE

I can't tell if the tearout is on the inside of a bowl or on the outside of a bowl, but tearout will occur on endgrain.

If it is on the outside of the bowl, try shear scraping very lightly, taking just a little wood each time. Sometimes, wetting the area with sanding sealer and cutting the wood while the sanding sealer is still wet will help. The sanding sealer help support the wood fibers.  Make sure your tools are freshly sharpened.

If the tearout is on the inside of the bowl, try applying some sanding sealer on the tearout area and then use a freshly sharpened scraper very, very lightly. Keep making light passes until the tearout is gone.

Sometimes, If you can't turn the tearout completely out, turn off the lathe and sand it out manually. Rub the sandpaper with the grain. Start with either 80 or 100 grit and work your way up.

Remember though, when turning away tearout, use sharp tools and light cuts. 
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

CHARLIE

I tried to describe shear scraping but this YouTube video might make it easier to understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXcHLJZi_zk

Description of Shear scraping:
To shear scrape the outside of the bowl, use your bowl gouge (If you have a gouge with a fingernail grind, that works real good).  Slow your lathe speed down. Hold the gouge so the flute is toward the bowl and the cutting edge is at about a 45° angle to the wood.  Lightly pull the inside cutting edge across the surface of the wood.  The greater the angle you hold the cutting edge, the finer your cut will be.  Lessen the angle where your cutting edge is more horizontal and you'll cut more aggressivly, which would result in more tearout.  Be sure to PULL the edge across the wood. It is kind of like dragging the edge lightly across the wood.  DO NOT push the edge into the wood, but always pull.  Shear scraping on the inside of the bowl, you would use a round nosed scraper held at 45° and pull it across the wood lightly.

If you are doing it right, you'll get real fine hairs of wood coming off the bowl.

I don't know if I can find a YouTube video to help you or not but I'll look.
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

Lud

I notice you don't say how fast this was being turned when this surface appeared.  How are you sharpening?  Are you aware of the importance of the burr and how the angle the blade is held.  Generally,  I scrape faster with as light a touch as possible.

There is a lot of "touch"  to shear scraping and it is very hard on the edge so you may have to resharpen often.  Watch your results.  Stop the bowl and check the surface.  End grain that won't smooth gets sanded.   Good luck! :)
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

Peter Drouin

HI lud  I do resharpen often. and I turn fast :D  so I slowed it down a little and it help some.and sanding hard maple   well that was not fun . well about a million sheets of sand paper later I had it  :D :D so I did the in side and that went well, oiled it up,   thanks for the help guys :) :)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

SwampDonkey

I've been turning hard maple all winter and never had any troubles. The wood was kilned.  Well I take that back, if you heat the wood too much you'll get checks on the end grain. I have good tools, I sharpen when needed, but I never had any bur up like that. Now butternut, that'll bur up on every machine in the shop. :D

What kind of sand paper you buying to go through so much? :D That Chinese stuff? I can't get good stuff locally, I have to order it.

I've not turned like Lud and Charlie for show pieces much, just for legs, pulleys, handles, wheels type of stuff. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Clam77

 :D  SD.... alot of your peices I've seen so far are considered "show peices"..    :D
Andy

Stihl 009, 028, 038, 041, MS362
Mac 1-40, 3-25

WDH

Some of SD's pieces loom large  :D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Peter Drouin

Well my next one WAS going to be butternut but not now :D :D I have had all the bur up for a day or two. im golng back to cherry :D :D
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

SwampDonkey

Quote from: WDH on March 01, 2012, 09:22:53 PM
Some of SD's pieces loom large  :D.

Got all this space to use up, best use it wisely. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

That is an immutable law of nature.........."Space fills up."   ::)
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

CHARLIE

Peter, on a different subject.  I've been to some woodturning symposium classes and have also seen demonstrations when I belonged to a woodturning club given by nationally known professional turners.  If they tell me not to do something or to be particularly careful, I listen.  One thing they've emphasized is to do your woodturning with as low a speed as you can get away with.  Two woodturners, one in our club and one in the Rochester, Minnesota club ended up with broken jaws when the wood came off the lathe. Both times were when a chunk of wood broke away from the bowl. And that also reinforces wearing a facemask.....except one of the guys was wearing a facemask but he had his head turned sideways when the bowl broke.  Also, the bigger the bowl, the slower the lathe speed because the outside of the bowl rim is really flying even at low speed.  The pros say, "Speed kills".
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

Peter Drouin

Thanks Charlie I will Listen too, and slow it down :) :)
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Lud

I'm careful when starting to turn as I want to know the block is secure.  My Nova will drop down to 250  and put the tool  into the wood to start rounding the block. I'll jump to 500 and maybe 750 if rounding the outside is going good but I know I'm just starting and I need to  prepare the block for the chuck.

After the block is mounted on the chuck , I feel it is very secure and , after confirming so from outside the line of fire,  I'll go above 1000 rpm.  I've pushed it up above 2000  on real small stuff but if I get nervous I slow it down.  I never got into doing pens but I suppose one might use the highest speeds with the minimal diameters.

I don't always wear  a facemask  but I live in my safety glasses.  The times blocks have flown off the lathe , it is usually tangently or perpendicularly ,  so it's only smart to stand where the stuff won't fly.  After all ,  you don't stand in front of the cannon! 8)
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

CHARLIE

My stance and the way I grip my tools is not conventional.  When I'm instructing someone in woodturning, I have to tell them not to copy the way I do it but to learn the proper way.  I have to grip my tools differently because of the arthritis in my hands. I also do not usually stand in front of what I'm turning because once I took a chunk of oak to the chest, which I did not find appealing.

I also think small diameter stuff, like pens and shawl pins, can be turned at a higher speed without cause for concern but you should protect your eyes.  However, wearing a face shield is a great habit to get into. Believe me when I say that when something bad happens in woodworking, it's over before you knew it started. There is no second chance unless you are just plain lucky.

Quite a few years ago, I was turning an "Inside/Out" ornament. They are not that big and I was not wearing a face shield.  I don't know why, but about midway through the project, I put on my face shield. Not long after I did, that ornament literally exploded off the lathe and the sharp shards of wood hit me directly in the face shield. Now that will cause a man to step back and reflect a little bit.  Anyway, I try to remember that experience and wear my face shield.
   
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

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