Sharpening a chain. Why so difficult

[Old Greenhorn]

Different stuff works for different folks. Let us know how you make out with it. Me, I always steer away from the gimmicks and gizmos that are trying to replace skill. That's just me. I have a friend at work that uses one of those do-dads and loves it, so go figger.

[John Mc]

No reflection on the current commenters, since I've never met the vast majority of you face to face, but as I've stated in other threads here...

I've met many dozens of people who think they do a great job of sharpening a chain freehand - with just a round file and nothing else (well, almost nothing else: they do use a flat file when it's time to touch up the depth gauges). For most of them, I'll admit that it does cut better than before they sharpened it. It doesn't cut as well as they seem to think it does, and I certainly wouldn't term it a consistently great job.

I've met just three people who actually can do a great job freehand (i.e. as good as or better than the factory edge). Sadly, I am not one of those three... Nor do I have any intention or need to become one. I can beat "out of the box" cutting performance using either the Oregon guide that clips on to the file, or the "Swedish roller guide" sold by Husqvarna.

Can I touch one up freehand in a pinch? Sure. But since if I've got my file with me, I also have the guide with me, so why bother? I can read a newspaper without my reading glasses on, but if I've got them with me, you can bet I'll use them. (Speaking of reading glasses: I can sharpen a chain using a guide even if I don't have my glasses with me. Doing it freehand without my glasses would be a lot tougher.)

[upnut]

Good luck with your new tool, let us know how it works out. My brother has a power sharpener mounted on a dedicated work station which he likes. He's going to need it after today, I hit metal in an old dead elm we were bucking up with his Stihl 441. Thought it was fencing, turned out to be a broadhead embedded quite deep. Couldn't believe the damage to a fairly new chain...ugh!

Scott B.

[Kwill]

I gave it a whirl on a newer chain that had got dull and hadn't been sharpened. It worked good and the saw cut nice and straight. Better than I ever sharpened one with the other dope holders and stuff. I'd say it was 40 well spent

[Pulphook]

There are few anythings that do exactly what they say and do it well. One is a pulphook. Or snow tires. Maybe long underwear. Another is the Pferd ( also under Stihl ) 2 in 1 sharpener.
As said, it even does those "rock" chains when you hit barbed wire, a round, or dirt in a tree. Just takes many easy, efficient passes to get the chain sharpened. No noisy electric grinder to burn the chain...and, you can sing as you sharpen and count passes. :-[
I have 3 of them for my sized chains/bars. The new and improved version as shown above eliminates shifting the round and flat files for each chain side.
Maybe I'll get one when the files in the original versions wear out...or I eliminate my daily Laphroaig 2 fingers.
This is really "better than sliced bread". 8)

[Old Greenhorn]

I gave it a whirl on a newer chain that had got dull and hadn't been sharpened. It worked good and the saw cut nice and straight. Better than I ever sharpened one with the other dope holders and stuff. I'd say it was 40 well spent

Well, there you go then! You found what works for you. Just give it some practice and things will continue to improve.
 @John Mc I am one of those 'freehand guys' you were probably referring to, and yes, it works just great for me. I have never seen or heard of an kind of guide or gadget for those of us decrepit old dogs that square file. (save one of those $1,500 (used) grinders.) The file fits the tooth form and the corner MUST come out in the right place or you have a lousy cut. I also find it much easier than round filing once I have the square profile created the first time. Changing a chain from round to square can take me the better part of an hour doing it carefully. If I were to round file, I would be using a Swedish roller guide, they work well. If anybody has something to help square file folks like me I'd love to hear about it.

[John Mc]

@Old Greenhorn - The freehand guys to which I was referring are all more or less local, and people who I've had the chance to see their filing in action - either using their saw myself, or seeing what happens when they use it. (You can't really tell how good a guy is over the internet.)

They range from Joe Homeowner to pro loggers. Two of the ones who really could do a good job were pros. One was a small landowner. He did not have a lot of experience using a chainsaw - sometimes his felling technique was a bit scary. He sure could sharpen a chain, though. I was a bit surprised by this until he told me what he did for a living: he was a machinist , and into woodworking as a hobby - I guess working with hand tools came naturally to him with that experience.

[HolmenTree]

Always hand file the right hand cutters first because if your file slips out of the right hand cutter's gullet your index finger knuckle will get sliced to the bone on a freshly sharpened left hand cutter. And the thickest leather gloves won't save your knuckle.
Here's how I like to file my chain, comfortable,  good view of the cutting edges, free hand suppirts the chain from wobbling and firm grip on the saw. Got my reading glasses on too ;D
Works the same sitting on a log or stump.


 

That's pretty much how I do mine. Either in my lap, or on a tailgate. Chaps keep the saw gunk off your pants  :^D

I only wear chaps on the hottest days in my tree service.
Those are ballistic nylon padded safety pants I'm wearing there.

[lxskllr]

I only wear chaps on the hottest days in my tree service.
Those are ballistic nylon padded safety pants I'm wearing there.

I have the luxury of cutting when I want, and that's pretty much always <70F. All the gear makes me hot, especially the hard hat. I wear that mainly for the face shield and muffs. So far, 25F seems to be the sweet spot, but I haven't gone colder yet. At 25°, I'm doing enough work to stay warm, and just on the verge of sweating, but not quite there. It was 65° today, and I consider that too hot for any real tree work. There's an ash at work I'd like to fall, but I was too busy doing what I'm supposed to do, and my spotter wasn't available. A single tree at 65° would be ok.


Never worn the pants, but I don't think I'd like them. It's nice being able to easily take the chaps off for lunch, and cool down a bit. I'm not doing it professionally either though. I could see how an arborist would prefer pants. Probably more freedom of movement, and less stuff to snag.

[Old Greenhorn]

@Old Greenhorn - The freehand guys to which I was referring are all more or less local, and people who I've had the chance to see their filing in action - either using their saw myself, or seeing what happens when they use it. (You can't really tell how good a guy is over the internet.)

They range from Joe Homeowner to pro loggers. Two of the ones who really could do a good job were pros. One was a small landowner. He did not have a lot of experience using a chainsaw - sometimes his felling technique was a bit scary. He sure could sharpen a chain, though. I was a bit surprised by this until he told me what he did for a living: he was a machinist , and into woodworking as a hobby - I guess working with hand tools came naturally to him with that experience.

Really? I thought everyone was perfect on the internet, especially those dudes over on another social media site that know EVERYTHING!
Most of the guys I see, like you have seen, (My GOSH, they are EVERYWHERE!) just never had somebody who really knows, to teach them and coach them. The nice thing about ignorance is that it can be cured fairly easily.
You won't be surprised to learn that I have been a machinist for about 45 years now (although these days they call me an Engineer) and in part of my training we were given a chunk of steel as a test and we had to make a 3/4" cube that was square and flat on all sides and measured to size within .005". We were allowed two cutting tools, a hacksaw and a file. You get pretty frustrated doing that, but once you figured out the Zen part of it, you got pretty good. I tend to use a file more like a painter would use a brush. Every stroke means something. When I had my own shop, I would occasionally make some free form parts (no square edges, usually make to a traced template) on my die-filer, which is nothing more than a powered filing machine (works like a jig-saw and cuts on the downward stroke). Man I miss that machine. I did a quick prototype for a customer out of a brass scrap one time to make sure I knew what he wanted, took me 20 minutes, and showed it to him. He bought the sample, just said "how much?" I explained it was junk to see if I understood the concept, but if he wanted it he could have it or I could make a nice one. He just said "how much?" I said "pay me whatever you think it's worth" so he gave me $200. for it. Easiest buck I ever made.

[thecfarm]

I am glad you found something that works for you.

[Kwill]

saw worked good afterwards as far as cutting.Its running a bit rough. Im hoping its just this tank of gas.

[Greyman]

The biggest mistake my brothers all make (  : ) is to only sharpen from one side of the saw, either freehand or with a file guide.  If you do that, especially with a worn bar, one side will be at a much different angle than the other and it will cut crooked.  That, in turn, wears the bar groove so it gets worse every time.  Always file in the up/forward direction.  Also make sure you're using the correct file size.

[realzed]

I gave it a whirl on a newer chain that had got dull and hadn't been sharpened. It worked good and the saw cut nice and straight. Better than I ever sharpened one with the other dope holders and stuff. I'd say it was 40 well spent

I bought one hearing that they worked well and I found it is certainly easier, but not especially any faster than a regular Stihl Files and guide setup. 
I always found filing sort of therapeutic and a great way to unwind with a 'cold one' nearby after a day of hacking away at a bunch of wood..
I haven't hit much in the way of metal things thankfully though, and except for grounding a tooth here or there, drastic efforts at sharpening haven't been too much of a necessity or urgently needed in the woods though - so with a cold beside me back at camp, it's always been a good way to end up my day - cleaning up and readjusting everything and getting prepared for the next day's mayhem!
The 2 in 1 deal, although expensive, I find makes it visually easier to maintain the correct tooth angle and keep a level cross motion, and all in all makes for a good job leaving my chains just as sharp if not more so than 'as new' condition from what I can tell by the action or cuttings left behind.     

[hopm]

I'm terrible at sharpening!!! Yes the first step in resolving a problem is admitting there is a problem. The Stilh 2 and 1 was what showed me how bad my sharpening really is....I have a grinder that I use on occasion for bad damage or when I over file and my saw doesnt cut straight.....I guess all in all you just have to find what works best for you and no there is nothing idiot proof.

[HolmenTree]

File guides takes care of the one thing that takes alot of practice when learning how to free file without a guide.... that is keeping the round file at the right height in the cutter's gullet to maintain the proper sideplate "hook" angle.

But in time (if you do enough cutting) you will want to dispose of the training wheels after you are comfortable with the motion and what to expect in your results.
Best advice I can give you is when I free file I have the best view of the cutter plus I can hold onto the cutter with my free hand thumb and fore finger to steady it as I file .((Holding the right hand cutters depth gauge or below it at the rivet. Holding the rear of the left hand cutters or below it at the rivet.))

Of course I'm not holding the file with 2 hands so it takes a bit more grip strength and endurance to completely file a rocked out chain. But I am still using 2 hands with one holding the cutter steady relieving stress on my file hand.

Also as your learning to free file you will need to squat down or lay the saw on its side to see that you're staying on track with the proper side plate angle.

One other thing to consider is depth gauge lowering with either the .025" constant method or the progressive method.
I don't recommend  casual chainsaw user's to file depth gauges progressive as most times they will never use up their chain long enough to make it practical. 
But if they do have enough skill and patience to keep the chain out of the dirt and rocks it can be practical and makes good use of money well spent.
Using a worn out bar with spread rails will not work with cutters filed down as small as you can get them.
But if your bar is in good shape those tiny cutter bits with depth gauges at .038"-.040" will cut like crazy.


 

[lxskllr]

What's the progressive method regarding rakers? I take less care of them than I probably should. I might hit them every 6 or so sharpenings, simply checking with the Stihl file gauge. File flat, then round over the leading edge.

[HolmenTree]

What's the progressive method regarding rakers? I take less care of them than I probably should. I might hit them every 6 or so sharpenings, simply checking with the Stihl file gauge. File flat, then round over the leading edge.

You need this tool made by Carlton since the 1960's.  The newer similar ones today like the Husqvarna model I'm not sure about as I have no experience with them.
But when I get my cutters filed back that small I have a .040 depth gaugit that I use. And yes of course we all know to round that leading corner on the depth gauge off as they don't illustrate in the diagram I posted.
After a hour or 2 of cutting that corner will be perfectly honed smooth to the proper angle for when the cutter is tipped back in the feed position.

[John Mc]

If your Stihl Depth Gauge tool looks something like one of these:

 

Then you are setting them using the constant method: the depth gauge is always a set amount (often .025") below the tip of the cutter tooth. This method also requires that you keep all of your teeth the same length for best results (since the tool rests across the tops of multiple teeth, if your teeth are not the same, the tool will sit at an angle, throwig off the depth in relation to the following tooth). Getting all of the cutters on one side shorter than those on the other makes them take less of a bite, causing your saw to cut on a curve.

Progressive depth gauges like this one (found on the roller filing guide) rest on the top of one tooth, and allow the associated depth gauge to poke up through the hole. You file off whatever sticks up. (In the photo, the tooth that matters is the one that is covered by the tool, more or less under the roller. Its associated cutter is poking up through the hole.) These have two advantages: (1) as the tooth is filed back, the depth gauge is gradually set deeper in relation to the associated tooth, allowing the chain to continue to take the proper "bite" in the wood (as shown in the picture Holmen Tree posted). and (2) Since each depth gauge height is set solely in reference to its associated tooth, it's not as important to get all of the teeth filed to exactly the same length (I still don't let them get way out of whack with each other, but a bit of difference has basically no effect on cutting performance.)



If you are not using a roller guide, this type of depth gauge tool works on the same principle (you just use one end or the other, depending on whether you are setting up for softwood or hardwood. I tend to do all of mine on the hardwood setting, since that's 90% or more of what I cut.)

[lxskllr]

Yea, I'm using the long gauge. Next time I make an order, I'll try to remember to pickup a short one. I'd like to try it out. Remembering's the hard part. I'll sit there staring at my cart knowing there's something else I wanted, but won't remember til 12 hours after I hit [Submit]   :^/

[HolmenTree]

I have many types of gauges I've collected over the years.
This one is my favorite, it for setting bow saw blades but works fine on sawchain. It's very old as it has $1.85 on the back of the box scratched out and replaced with $2.75.


 

 
I bought it from wood working guru Leonard Lee founder of Lee Valley tools back in the late 1970's .
He was born in and raised in Saskatchewan just down the road from our farm.
Excellent read here about his dynasty.
Lee Valley Tools founder Leonard Lee treated customers as friends - The Globe and Mail

[HolmenTree]

EDIT: I fixed the link. Lee Valley has stores in the US too. Reno, Nevada and Ogdensburg, New York.
Lee Valley Tools founder Leonard Lee treated customers as friends - The Globe and Mail

[Pulphook]

I'm beating the PFERD dead horse so much, maybe we'll join the company in Deuchland. It's not a public one, so no stock.
Hey all, you don't need all those guides that get lost in the sawdust, or plug in a tool that can easily damage the chain. Get a tool that does it all, simply, cheaply, reliably. The electric grinders don't do the rakers with one pass. Think of the time saved, the anxiety, the stress, the convenience in the field to touch up the chains.
.....continue with the beating. ???

[HolmenTree]

I'm beating the PFERD dead horse so much, maybe we'll join the company in Deuchland. It's not a public one, so no stock.
Hey all, you don't need all those guides that get lost in the sawdust, or plug in a tool that can easily damage the chain. Get a tool that does it all, simply, cheaply, reliably. The electric grinders don't do the rakers with one pass. Think of the time saved, the anxiety, the stress, the convenience in the field to touch up the chains.
.....continue with the beating. ???

Yes the Pferd/Stihl 2 in 1 is a great tool to learn on but you still need one more tool to lug around to use with it.....a stump vise.
The 2 in 1 can only be used properly with both hands. ;D

[Old Greenhorn]

I'm beating the PFERD dead horse so much, maybe we'll join the company in Deuchland. It's not a public one, so no stock.
Hey all, you don't need all those guides that get lost in the sawdust, or plug in a tool that can easily damage the chain. Get a tool that does it all, simply, cheaply, reliably. The electric grinders don't do the rakers with one pass. Think of the time saved, the anxiety, the stress, the convenience in the field to touch up the chains.
.....continue with the beating. ???

You beat that horse as long as you want Pulp, as long as you've stopped insinuating my shed is really an outhouse I am happy you have a new focus.  :D :D