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New firewood processor build

Started by mjeselskis, November 09, 2015, 07:34:55 PM

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mjeselskis

Quote from: snowstorm on November 18, 2015, 08:02:01 AM
Quote from: mjeselskis on November 17, 2015, 09:40:15 PM
Quote from: 711ac on November 16, 2015, 08:36:46 PM
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what western ME town?
I'm near Rumford.

I've got a hydraulic question for those with more experience. Snowstorm brought up a concern on my hydraulic plan in another thread.
why run 2 pumps for the saw and the saw cyl? if using a load senseing pump and valves it could run bolth. control the saw cyl with the pressure relief valve. you dont need a big cyl for the saw. my keto ctl head dose it this way. it works very well . a saw cyl with a 1/2 to 3/4" rod is big enought. piston pumps are great but more complex. with load sense line and standby pressure. you need to really do your homework. if you could find a cheap or parted out ctl head. you would have the saw motor mount saw cyl all you would need ready to bolt on

Running two pumps because I have them from the donor and pumps are expensive. I'll have to dig out my hydraulics textbook from college and see what I can figure out. I do like your idea snowstorm if I was buying all new equipment. I do need to do my homework on the piston pump, as I don't fully understand why there are so many ports on the pump compared to a gear pump.
2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

snowstorm

how many ports? one to tank one pressure and one or more load sense

mjeselskis

5 ports. It's from a hydrostatic application so two go to the motor. One looks a suction line due to the fitting. Not sure what the other two are for. One maybe relief back to the tank?

It's an Eaton 70145 pump




2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

mjeselskis

Did some more digging. It appears there is a charge pump to bring oil from the tank, makes sense. Does a charge pump have a discharge line?

In the first picture, from left to right. It's case drain, pressure line, and charge pump suction line. In the second picture, the big one is obviously the other pressure line, and I'm wondering if the smaller one is the charge pump discharge line?
2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

snowstorm

top picture what is that shaft on the left with the plate with 2 screws? did that control the speed of the mower? i dont see a controller on that pump that would also have the pressure relief and load sense. you may be better off using open center gear pumps. that would keep it simple and less expensive

mjeselskis

The shaft controls the motor flow. It's not a pressure compensated pump. I plan to control the flow with mechanical linkage based on the bar position. It is different, but in some ways simpler since there are no valves to control the flow to the saw motor.
2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

mjeselskis

Almost done the splitter end done, just need to add some flat bar for the grate and get everything all welded up. Got the rolls in rough position and got the engine degreased and set in rough position as well.





2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

Theo

Nice job

make sure that you have an guide system (log stopper to desired seize)

An that the  Guide is fixed (not a chain) and gives some  loose to your piece of wood once start cutting (So wood will not stoke between guide and chain bar)

It's also fun to have an automatic engagement of the splitter (once you down cuting) to save time and not have to start the spliting proces by hand on each peace of wood

I am in the wood processor business (sold 30 this year)  So if you need some advice or pictures... please send me an PM

THEO
HUD-SON and Range-Road & KASCO Canada Dealer

mjeselskis

Quote from: Theo on November 29, 2015, 05:12:51 PM
Nice job

make sure that you have an guide system (log stopper to desired seize)

An that the  Guide is fixed (not a chain) and gives some  loose to your piece of wood once start cutting (So wood will not stoke between guide and chain bar)

It's also fun to have an automatic engagement of the splitter (once you down cuting) to save time and not have to start the spliting proces by hand on each peace of wood

I am in the wood processor business (sold 30 this year)  So if you need some advice or pictures... please send me an PM

THEO

Thanks Theo,
I'd be interested in pictures of the log stop you mentioned. I'd planned to just use chain like most of the others I'd seen.
2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

Theo

The 2 big disadvantage of a chain

-1  is that it always moves (vibration of the machine)
not easy to keep the length from one piece to an other

- 2 With an chain you have to do an visual stop, while a fixed guide is a physical stop (log can not go further)
at the end of the day it can make an diference on the time saved

Theo
HUD-SON and Range-Road & KASCO Canada Dealer

mjeselskis

Quote from: Theo on December 02, 2015, 07:21:19 PM
The 2 big disadvantage of a chain

-1  is that it always moves (vibration of the machine)
not easy to keep the length from one piece to an other

- 2 With an chain you have to do an visual stop, while a fixed guide is a physical stop (log can not go further)
at the end of the day it can make an diference on the time saved

Theo
How about a fixed, solid stop? Would it affect how the cut off piece falls? Why does it need to be retractable? Thinking a piece of 2" square tube would make a solid stop.
2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

lopet

If your stop doesn't give away when you're cutting, your bar and chain will bind when the block starts to brake off.

Mine is t ed off the saw arm and gets out off the road when the bar comes down. They both return on air pressure.
Just to give you a idea.



 

Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

mjeselskis

Quote from: Theo on November 29, 2015, 05:12:51 PM
Nice job

make sure that you have an guide system (log stopper to desired seize)

An that the  Guide is fixed (not a chain) and gives some  loose to your piece of wood once start cutting (So wood will not stoke between guide and chain bar)

It's also fun to have an automatic engagement of the splitter (once you down cuting) to save time and not have to start the spliting proces by hand on each peace of wood

I am in the wood processor business (sold 30 this year)  So if you need some advice or pictures... please send me an PM

THEO

Theo sent me some pics to show the log stop



2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

DeerMeadowFarm

I went back, but still couldn't find it...? What are you using for an engine?

kiko

The fifth one is most likely auxiliary  charge pressure port and would probably be plugged in your application.  A pressure reduction valve drawing off the saw motor flow could be used for bar down pressure eliminating an extra function, but you may already be on to that one.

mjeselskis

Quote from: DeerMeadowFarm on December 09, 2015, 10:30:10 AM
I went back, but still couldn't find it...? What are you using for an engine?

The engine is a Kohler D1105 rated at 25hp
2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

DeerMeadowFarm

Nice! Thank you. I will be following your build!

mjeselskis

It's been slow going over the past few weeks, but the splitter is finished, the engine is mounted, and we're starting to work on the clamp. We need to buy a hydraulic tank for it, but I'm debating the size. I'd like to gather some opinions, is 10 gallon enough, 15? 20? The tank on the donor was only around 5 gallons

I'll see if I can get  some updated pics this weekend
2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

blackfoot griz

MJ,
Is there a hydro cooler from the donor machine? If not, on your new tank, bigger is better IMO. It appears that you will have more functions going on with the processor than what the original machine had. This could well equate to greater heat build up. My processor runs off a 38 HP gas engine that runs @2400 rpm. With a 40 gallon tank  my hydro temperature  has hit 160 on a hot day running hard. If my tank was only 20 gallons  I would have a heat problem without a cooler. Again, just my opinion, but if space and weight aren't a huge concern, I would go with a larger hydro tank without a cooler.

Any updated pics??

mjeselskis

There is a hydro cooler, about 8" x14". I'll get a picture of it later.

Latest pics.






2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

blackfoot griz

Can you verify if the cooler runs full-time or only when needed? Just curious with you living in Maine and running it in the  cold, you would probably only want it to kick in when needed.

mjeselskis

Quote from: blackfoot griz on January 16, 2016, 12:49:48 PM
Can you verify if the cooler runs full-time or only when needed? Just curious with you living in Maine and running it in the  cold, you would probably only want it to kick in when needed.

The cooler is right behind the radiator, so it gets air through it whenever the fan us spinning.




There is a tag on it, I need to see if I can find out what it's rated for. I'm not sure how hydraulic coolers are sized.



After we got the pump mounted today, we got the clamp fabbed up.



2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

mjeselskis

I'm leaning toward a 25 gallon reservoir with the cooler on the suction line to the pumps. I've checked the specs on quite a few commercial processors (dyna and hudson) and they all seem to be about 1 gallon of reservoir per engine HP.
2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

North River Energy

^You might be better off with the cooler on a return circuit, rather than on the suction line. I've got mine on the (circle) saw return, as that function generates the most heat.
General rule on reservoir volume is 1-1.5xgpm, depending on load. Would not go by the capacity of 'budget' machines. They're constrained by price point/market segment, and that means compromise.

mjeselskis

Quote from: North River Energy on January 18, 2016, 08:16:57 PM
^You might be better off with the cooler on a return circuit, rather than on the suction line. I've got mine on the (circle) saw return, as that function generates the most heat.
General rule on reservoir volume is 1-1.5xgpm, depending on load. Would not go by the capacity of 'budget' machines. They're constrained by price point/market segment, and that means compromise.

Thanks for the advice. Putting it on the return line makes sense. Is the 1 - 1.5 x GPM "rule" with a cooler or without?

Any reason I can't dump the return of all the pumps through the cooler? The saw motor won't be dumping much back to the tank due to its design ( closed loop hydrostatic pump).
2006 WM LT28  1993 John Deere 5300
Husqvarna 562XP & 365 X-Torq

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