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Unusual Request

Started by Tom Sawyer, January 30, 2009, 04:06:50 PM

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Tom Sawyer

I have a repeat customer who called me with an unusual request this week.  He wants me to take some 3" thick by 24" wide walnut and spalted maple slabs and slice them into 24" wide by 1/8" thick veneer.  He then intends to glue them onto sheets of MDF to use as panelling in a new restaurant that he is opening.  I swear I am not making this up ::)

He also is not thrilled with leaving a 7/8" piece at the bottom and wondered if I could put something under it to get a couple of extra slices off.  Any advice?  I told him I would be willing to do a test to see how it worked ::)

Tom

woodrat

my first thought is that there are not going to be very many 24" wide veneers sawed that way that are not going to crack somewhere anyway. I have a friend who does his own veneering for high end cabinetry and I don't think he ever tries to work with veneers that wide.
1996 Woodmizer LT40HD
Yanmar 3220D and MF 253
Wallenstein FX 65 logging winch
Husky 61, 272XP, 372XP, 346XP, 353
Stihl 036, 046 with Lewis Winch
78 Chevy C30 dump truck, 80 Ford F350 4x4
35 ton firewood splitter
Eastonmade 22-28 splitter and conveyor
and ...lots of other junk...

WH_Conley

I agree on the cracking, though I am not an expert. Going to lose more to saw kerf than he gets. What about planing? If you block it up you will only get one more, maybe 2. The chance of it jumping out of the clamp really increases.
Bill

woodrat

My cabinetry friend likes to do narrow veneers that bookmatch each other, so you end up with a really nice look, while being able to use narrower veneers.

And he would lose less if he cut the veneers with a shop bandsaw that had a narrower kerf.
1996 Woodmizer LT40HD
Yanmar 3220D and MF 253
Wallenstein FX 65 logging winch
Husky 61, 272XP, 372XP, 346XP, 353
Stihl 036, 046 with Lewis Winch
78 Chevy C30 dump truck, 80 Ford F350 4x4
35 ton firewood splitter
Eastonmade 22-28 splitter and conveyor
and ...lots of other junk...

Tom Sawyer

Those were my thoughts too, but he is keen to at least try it.  I am not sure how he plans to get the saw marks out.  This guy is not a wood guy, he knows how to run a restaurant and he knows what he wants it to look like.  I am trying to help him get that look! :-\

metalspinner

One problem will be the differing moisture contents of the vneers released from the board.  I doubt that the centers of planks that large are very dry.  1/8" thick leaves him no room to finish surface the veneers after he glues them onto his MDF.  It also leaves you very little fudge factor for bandsawing them.  Maybe he is using them in the rough?  If you guys are successful, make sure he covers those veneers in the back of his truck for the drive home.  The top one at least will dry really quick with the wind blowing on it.  Better yet, I would put all those veneers between a few mdf pieces until I was ready to work them.
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

LeeB

Make sure he knows the possible outcome up front. I think I would cut a little thicker, say maybe 1/4". How you gonna charge for this one? Lots of cuts to make. I would think you would also need to flip the cant every couple of cuts to relieve stress.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

sgschwend

Put on a blade with more teeth.  I have used a Lenox bi-metal blade with 3 tpi and the cut is a lot smoother.  Also tell him you will make the first part 1/4", to see how the wood holds up; to make sure you can produce an part that will work for him.  Then you may be able to go thinner, but first start by making a good part.  If necessary he can remove some material in sanding.

Post a picture of the results for us all to see.
Steve Gschwend

sjgschwend@gmail.com

Tom Sawyer

I have made it quite clear that I am doubtful of this working the way he wants.  At this point he is talking about bringing one slab to do a few test cuts on to see what happens.  If it actually does work and he wants me to do more I will charge by the hour like I always do.  I think the main reason why he wants 1/8" is because he knows how many pieces he needs and he knows how many slabs he has and if I cut them thicker he won't get enough pieces.  I plan on using brand new blades for this.  We will see how it goes ::)  If this actually happens I will try to get some pics.

Cedarman

When I have to saw wide thin stuff and make it all as thin as possible I do this.  I first make a bed on the mill using a couple of cants.  Say 4 " thick.  I make a thin saw cut.  This gives me a table that is exactly parallel to the blade travel.  Then I set the slab on these cants and put several heavy cants on top to keep it flat while I saw through and through.  On the side I use a sacrifice board on edge to provide the backing as I saw through the thick piece keeping everything in place.  This way I can saw all the way down and get that 3/4 turned into 3 more 1/8" pieces.  Hope this makes sense.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

fat olde elf

My approach is similar to Cedrman except I don't use the sacrifice board. I just tack a board on the supporting cants and leave 1/4 inch exposed as an edge.  I have cut a lot of ERC and walnut this way.  The walnut needed support while drying and turned out pefectly straight and flat. Also did some spalted maple and spalted cherry sapwood...Really interesting stuff...
Cook's MP-32 saw, MF-35, Several Husky Saws, Too Many Woodworking Tools, 4 PU's, Kind Wife.

zopi

I cut a 1/8" Veneer off of a maple crotch a couple months back, just to show my Mom it could be done...the blade is going to have to be somekind of dialed in with not too much set...the ripples seem to amplify a bit cutting that thin....especially that wide...maybe 8 or 10" bookmatches?

OTOH, when I left home that veneer was pretty solid...hadn't cracked yet, but I'd hate to try to glue it down...I thought I'd cut the whorls out of it with a razor knife and use it to inset a box top or something....
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

wdncno

If you  use really dry slabs, checking should not be muc of a problem, I wouldn't be afraid to go down to 1/8".  He should use boatbuilding epoxy and really saturate the veneers and could use a simple vacuum system to hold them tight to the mdf while drying.  I have cut really thin stuff for canoe building and guitar tops by using brass  or aluminum (nylon would be better) screws into a thick plank and sawing through them.  The saw cuts the brass with no ill effects because you know where the metal is and can slow right down for it.  Use a new blade and don't try to go to fast.  Definitely a "by the hour job with no guarantee."

Tom Sawyer

Thank you all for the great advice.  I am a bit more hopeful that it might actually work.  What would be the maximum width that you would go cutting these?  Is 24"realistic, or should I encourage him to do bookmatched narrower pieces?

Tom

urbanlumberinc

Those veneers need to be 3/8" thataway you'll have some room to plane away the saw marks from both sides and still get your 1/8" finished veneer.  ANother suggestion would be to put the veneers into a plastic bag as soon as they're cut.  Leave the end of the bag open slightly, that'll help slow the moisture loss from the veneer and go a long way to preventing checks.

Tom Sawyer

The plastic bag might be a good idea, but I am not sure how to do it with pieces that are 8' long. 

metalspinner

Heavy plastic vapor barrier would do OK.
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

ARKANSAWYER

When I have to resaw like that I just take 5 min epoxy and glue the slab down to another board that will sit on the deck.  So take two 2x12's and put a block on the bottom screwed in to keep them together.  Then cut down at about 1 1/4 and you will have a flat wooden deck to put the slab on.  Mix some 5 min epoxy and but some puddles at each end and the middle.  In about 6 min you can start sawing.  On you last cut just saw at 1 1/4 and start over.  I have found that re-sharp blades cut smoother then new blades.
  In glueing down veneer like that I have found contact cement to work better.  You coat the MDF and then the veneer and just start on the edge and bend it slightly and "roll" it on.  You get just one shot.  Belt sand or find a wide belt sander and you are done.
ARKANSAWYER

aksawyer

The problem with most people cutting vaneer is the feed speed and saw blade set.We cut alot of birch vaneers.The width is a matter but very possilbe at a slow rate.
ost mills dont slow down well if they feed hydrolically.We start every job by cutyting some wide vaneers,it lets the customer know he hired the rigth mill and sawyer combination.

kelLOGg

I used the wrong scale recently cutting red maple and to compensate I cut an 18 inch wide veneer about 1/8 inch thick. I had no plans for it so I set it aside in the barn just to see what would happen. I expected major cracks but after a year there were none. Warped a bit but no cracks.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

dail_h

   I'de put some weight on it to saw it,maybe a coupla 6x6s or somat.find someone with maybe a Woodmaster or similar wide sander. He probably could use a spray adhesive to hold the veneer to a thicker board for sanding. Once sanded,trim the edges,glue it down.
  If done right,could turn out to be a quite a fether in your cap.You are going to let us know how it turns out right?
World Champion Wildcat Sorter,1999 2002 2004 2005
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Tom Sawyer

If it happens I will let you know.  Right now he is rethinking things and it may not happen at all.....

StorminN

We used to cut some veneers on our Baker resaw, for fancy snowboard tops.

We would glue up 13" wide blocks of 4/4 purpleheart, yellow heart, walnut, paduke, etc. and then resaw them on their sides... butcher board style, to about 1/8" thick. We would then take a few of these veneers at a time and run them through our 36" wide belt sander... I forget how many thousandths thick they ended up at, but they were pretty thin. We would then laminate them to the top of the snowboard with epoxy, under a clear plastic topsheet... they turned out really well – and even though it was sorta wasteful with the wood, people bought them, so we made hundreds this way...

-N.
Happiness... is a sharp saw.

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