log buying advice

[Part_Timer]

I have had 2 neighbors come to the mill this week asking me to give them a price on some logs.  I have never purchased logs before.  We to look at them today and here is what I found

neighbor #1  2 pin oak.  20" x 12'  no limb cutoffs  and straight
                      2 ash         16" x 18'  nice and straight no limbs
                      logs are off of an old ditch bank no metal with metal detector

neighbor #2  1 pin oak   17" x 12'  one limb and bow about 1/2 way down
                      1 pin oak   17" x 28'  no limbs and straight
                      1 red oak   32" x 28'  no limbs still attached to root ball he will buck it and deliver it to mill
                      1 hackberry 20" x 25' no limbs and straight.
                      These trees were up rooted this winter in an ice storm.  All came off of the river.                 Neighbor #2 has a back hoe and running gear to deliver them to the mill. 
         I got on line with Purdue university to find what log prices are going for.  I have a rough idea now of the going price but could use some real world advice.  there is about a $400 range for the same grade of log.  Any information would be apperciated.  Both know that I have never purchased logs so they are willing to work with me.  I know that I am going to be bidding against a local saw mill for the large oak and I just want to have a competative bid.
Thanks Tom

[Ron Wenrich]

Pin oak is considered low grade.  There won't be much interest in the local mills except to be sawn into ties and pallet stock.  Doesn't make for too much good lumber.

Hackberry in my area will also be considered low grade.  Not too much demand for the grade from the local wholesalers.  Again, sawn into ties and pallet stock.  If you have a market for hackberry, then it you might want to consider a little more.

The red oak may be veneer quality.  That could fetch well over $1/bf, depending on markets in your area.  Ash could do the same, if it has less than 1/3 heart.

Here is what one mill is paying for logs in NY.  http://www.wightmanlumber.com/logprices.htm   I'd say his prices are pretty close to what others are paying in the area.  Note Doyle rule.

[rebocardo]

I do urban blow over. imo, If they are delivering the wood themselves, give them no more then the wholesale cost of firewood for the cubic feet delivered. Blowdowns are a hit or miss on wood quality. I usually try to see if I can get a good board, but, I would not pay for the experience.

I can almost guarantee that red oak, if it fell during a storm and has been sitting all winter is cracked from one end of the trunk to the other, from my experience. Especially if it has been limbed or cut from the root ball. As soon as you start to make boards you will find the trunk has split into a peace symbol and all your boards will have cracks.

I had a 28" red oak blow over last month that started with promise and 16" boards and ended as two cords of firewood and not one good board from the whole tree.

[J_T]

Here max price if cut 8'ft 8'' 35cents bf Doyle. For grade must be fresh cut . My 2 cents

[Rockn H]

Part Timer, you could always call the local mills , as many as you can think of, and ask them what they pay for timber.  This would give you a better idea of the timber cost in your area.  You also have to think of what you will be able to sell it for yourself and still make a profit.  Just a thought.

[Part_Timer]

Rockn H

     The closest mill to me is an Amish run mill so no phone there.  I didn't think to call the other one at Columbia City.  Just kinda got fixed on the one close by.  I did call one of the portable mills close by but they said they weren't buying logs.  The ice storm has left plenty of free trees to cut.  I checked out a lot of "free " trees this winter.  All I saw was a lot of yard trees full of bird house hangers ;)
     I have the pin oak sold if I get it.  I quarter sawed some this winter and it turned out real nice.  lots of ray in it.  THe person who bought it said if I get some more they will take it. 
     I have never cut any hackberry.  I have a little in my wood shop that was given to me by a friend and I would like some more for a hope chest for my sisters baby.   

J_T 
     thanks that helps I didn't realize grade had to be fresh cut

rebocardo 

     Yes it came down in an ice storm this winter.  we got so much ice that the power was out for 4 days here and 12 days about 20 miles south.  The large oak was uprooted by the weight of the ice.  The tree has been cut off above the first limb but is still attached to the root ball.  It was in the way of planting the fields this spring.  I did not see any cracks but I did tell the neighbor that any bid I made on it was subject to it being solid when we cut it from the root ball.  He said that was fine and he understood why. 

Ron Wenrich
    I thought about it being veneer grade and there is no way I could afford that so the timber buyers can have it.  There is a veneer plant 4 miles south of the house.  I think that is who he is calling to come look at it.  I checked out the web site and thanks.  The prices match up pretty goood with the info I got from the university.

Thanks for the help everybody

Tom 

[Ironwood]

All good input. I wouldn't get too excited about any pin oak, that's for sure. If the guy really wants it HAVE HIM PAY YOU AHEAD OF TIME, before you lay into it and find knots everywhere and your stuck with it.

  Ash is so beautiful, shame it is so under utilized (my opinion). and the bugs love the stuff so I don't keep much around as it may be years before I 'de use it. 

  Just my two cents. I will say, I laid into a BIG red oak today that came down in 1998. Been off the ground,on 4x4's and in the shade. WOW was it nice. we were sawing it for siding and decking for building projects, I had to stop the guy to cut 6 pcs. 8/4 x 17"x 12' with centered heart, cathedral grain and CLEAR. I would have never guessed. It will be dining tables. Sometime you get lucky, most times not.

                                REID