moving big logs with small equipment

[Fla._Deadheader]

Perfect example right here. The guy that bought the campground where we do the Logging-Sawing, Had a curved growing Live Oak. It had a sweep of about 50°. He found a Magnolia that was curved, that ED and I had sawn table slabs from. Well, He took it and made a bench out by the river, for the campground tenants to sit on.

  He figured more of the same would be a neat idea.  : :  He showed me the standing tree, and I told him DO NOT stick the saw on the back side of that tree.

  This guy knows everything, sooooooo, he cuts AT the tree. Made a small face notch, touched the back side and the tree splits. It missed his head, took the saw out of his hands, threw it about 30', and then the tree proceeded to fall with a twist, right on top of a $10,000.00 4 X 4 atv Mule type Cub Cadet tractor thingy.  :

  Next day, he took his Airboat out and was horseing around, and broadsided a Cypress Tree.  : :  Broke some ribs, punctured a lung, spent 4 days in expensive care, and his girlfriend has a shattered knee and a broke leg.

  YUP, some folks should NOT be allowed to own stuff.  : ;)

[floyd]

my bad, Kevin, missed part bout tension trees. My training was old fallers when I started 30 yr ago.

Much of my falling is on steep ground. Softwood sent to sawmills so America can build homes etc.

We cut alot of 42' logs. Used to be a great export market , got $1K /mbf. Those days long gone, Mills have re-tooled & no longer can handle much over 30 " on the butt.

Have treelengthed alot of ton wood out of my woodlot with my hooligans(horses).  down to a 4" top.
Ton wood market took a dump too.

Age has caught up with me. Mostly farm with the hooligans now...can sit on my butt that way. Yrs of following a compass,  doing inventory, & cruising timber have left their mark on me too.

[Larry]

JP;
Do you know why the tree missed the intended lay by 10o?

The tree never went to GOL school. :D ;D :D ;D

If you get a good sized leaner with a build up of tension in the trunk you don't want to slow dance with it .
The best way to handle it ...usually... is to bore it and leave a back strap.

I took a few pictures that illustrate what Kevin is talking about and put em on this old thread.

Directional Felling

Kevin and I differ on few items but were together on the major concepts.

Few loggers around here cut in straight from the back as fast as possible with a big bar on an 066.  There chasing the tree to try to avoid splitting or a barberchair.  I've seen couple still sawing when the tree was almost on the ground.  Guess they like to live on the edge...eventually they will eat a tree...usually a big un.

[Kevin]

Getting back to stump shot  ;D ...

If OSHA is recommending incorporating a stump shot into the felling cut and the Swedes GOL is instructing the fallers not to use it and an accident occurs where the tree kicks back and injures the faller will OSHA  rule that as an error in felling practices and hold the faller responsible?

[Larry]

Kevin, stump shot was not officially taught at GOL training I received.  Soren just sorta threw it in, along with few other amazing things.  As I understand it, GOL was developed with input by OSHA, insurance companies, major timber companies, and the thoughts of the best loggers in the country.  In Missouri ya don't cut on public land unless you have the training or are under the direct supervision of somebody that has been trained.  Also you have to be re-certified every 3 or 4 years.  I lost my certification few years ago by not taking updated classes....so can't say what they are teaching today.  Training costs are highly subsidized by the private sector in an attempt to keep government regulation at bay and workers comp rates in check.

I learned a lot of felling techniques vary by region...never see a humbolt notch...no big pine, sometimes a conventional notch, open face is really getting popular due to GOL training, and I hope the cut and run crowd learns something.

You ever been to the training?  I figure you could probably teach it.

[Kevin]

Thanks for the compliment.
I haven't had GOL but I've had two others approved by the Ontario government ministry of labour.
I may be getting an instructors licence this winter to train the guys where I work , the boss is working on it, we'll see what happens.

[ohsoloco]

Kevin, what are gunning sticks  ???  Lots of good info. being tossed around this thread  ;)

[Kevin]

Gunning sights are on the saw which Larry illustrates in his prior post of pictures and gunning sticks, these can be sticks, a measuring tape or just about anything you can make a V with.
I'm going to look at some trees today so I'll get a picture of the gunning sticks I made.
My gunning sticks are two wooden sticks hinged on one end and when you open them up it forms a V.
The pointed end of the V is directed exactly at the intended layout where the tree has to drop and the open end is held against the tree where the corners  of the notches must be placed.
The corners are marked on the tree, the notch is cut and then the felling cut is made up to the hinge wood.
With the gunning sticks the corners of the notch are square to the lay, get that right and cut the hinge right and the tree will drop where you want it .
You can use the sights on the saw for this as well as long as you pay attention to the cut and where the sights on the saw are directed.



The red V are the gunning sticks placed one third onto the face of the tree where the corners of the notch will be marked.
The red line is where the tree needs to be dropped.

[Max sawdust]

Thanks I too wanted to know about gunning sticks. Know here is an experience with a tensioned tree.
Yesterday afternoon I cut a highly tennsioned oak that was about 14 inch diameter.  I made a small notch (Saw started to bind on the small notch )  To me the tree was not big enough to to bore leaving a back strap, so I studied the situation chose the safest location and SLOWLY started the back cut releasing the tension.  I did this at full arms length from the side of the tree.  Sure was a mess I lucked out because it did not do the classic barber chair. 

Was this real stupid ???
max

[Grawulf]

Larry mentioned open face cuts - I've used those for about ten years now and very seldom missed the mark I was intending on unless I misjudged the weight of the limbs. Open face notches are different from a traditional notch -they allow the tree to stay on the hinge almost all the way to the ground. Instead of a 90 degree initial cut, you cut a 45 degree cut up, one third of the way through the tree, and then cut a 45 degree down to meet your initial cut. I forget who introduced it originally - could have been the founder of Stihl saws. It do work well!

[Kevin]

These are my gunning sticks, placed against the tree 1/3 the trees diameter and aimed at the lay the tree is marked at both ends of each stick.
This is where the corners of the notch must be.

[Kevin]

Max, that's not a good idea.
If the saw is already binding in the notch that tree has already started to lay down.
If that happens you might consider getting a rope up in the top of the tree to hold it in place while you finish making the cuts leaving a hinge then slowly release the rope.
If you get the notch made without it closing up on your bar then the holding wood can be cut on a V to release most of the tension wood prior to cutting up to the hinge.

[JP]

Kevin the pics of the gun sticks and the level are great// should solve most of my problems. ill have a set tomorrow..JP

[Slabs]

 Hey There JP

I think handling that big log with "small equipment" is just slicker'n a snotty doorknob.  It's right along the line of doing much with very little.  We-uns who work virtually alone in the backwoods have to be somewhat innovative on many ocasions just to get a chore done.

More power to ya' bud.

[Kevin]

If your tree is pretty well balanced, your corners are marked square to the lay using the gunning sticks and you leave an equal amount of holding wood across the hinge on both sides of the tree you should be able to wedge it over no problem directly into the lay.

[Norm]

Pretty slick sweatshirt ya got there Kevin!

Thanks for all the instructions in this thread, sure helps me to see how the pros do it.

[Kevin]

Thanks Norm;
I ripped that off an old bearded guy at the pig roast.
He had a bad back and couldn't straighten up so it was easy to pull it over his ears and walk away as he wasn't able to  run after me.  :D

[Jeff]

Ar Ar  :D

[JP]

it seems that this subject is not new :

I posted this little tale from the book Tall trees, tough men elseware but think its fitting here:
Told by an old woods boss  on the upper Connecticut river about 100+ years ago

The new man claimed he could use an axe, so Tom put him to work swamping out a road.
During the day the boss came onto him as he was attacking a yellow Birch about 6" in diameter. He was nibbling all the way around the tree, like a beaver. Tom was so thunderstruck he couldn't even swear. Finally he heaved a big sigh and said in a polite voice to the man, "which way do you think it'll fall?"
"How the hell do I know which way it'll fall  Retorted the axeman. "I came up here to work in the woods, not be a G—damned Prophet" //  JP 

[Sprucegum]

I have seen beaver cut trees with good results, I didn't realize some people thought they were smart enough to do it to :P

BTW I will bookmark this thread it has more good info than I can assimilate in one sitting 8)

[Ianab]

I have seen beaver cut trees with good results,

And sometimes....  :


;)

Ian

[metalspinner]

Darwinism at its finest. :D