My Love and Hate affair with Woodmizer

[woodweasel]

So I sold my lt35 and bought a lt40 hydraulic .  I love woodmizer products, the problem is every time I do a job,somebody falls in love with my Woodmizer Machine .  I now have three woodmizer's in my County here in Texas that was directly related to me sawing wood for those customers!! Its to the point where I don't want to say anything positive about woodmizer because I'm afraid somebody's going to buy one.??? ??? ;D :

[KirkD]

Paint it camo :D

[GAB]

Just because someone owns a saw does not mean that they are proficient with it.
For example - I've had a saw for 12 years and I am still learning new techniques when watching others.
Gerald

[WV Sawmiller]

Just because someone owns a saw does not mean that they are proficient with it.
For example - I've had a saw for 12 years and I am still learning new techniques when watching others.
Gerald

   Very good point and a reason to go to every sawing demo you can, no matter which brand or saw type. The dumbest sawyer on the block may still know some little trick that will make your life easier and your sawing better.

   Seems like somebody has a mill up every other holler around here. My biggest problem is many offer to work cheaper than me so people take their logs to them then they waste away waiting. I sawed some walnut last month that I watched for over a year on the ground half a mile away because my neighbor never got time to saw them. I had one of the prettiest whacks of pine logs ever offered to me last summer. Neatly stacked, level ground with great access and plenty of working room and even a shade tree over the milling site. I knew it was too good to be true. It was. They had laid there 18 months waiting on the miller who promised to saw them and when we started I'd slice a big sawyer every 2-3 feet making them unuseable for the desired purpose so I had to quit and go home after a couple hundred board feet.

[WV Sawmiller]

Weasel,

   Another epiphany! Sign up for the WM Pro Sawyer network and get your customers to sign a Demonstration card, turn it in to WM and then when they buy a mill you at least get WM credit for parts, service or sharpening.

   Old Saying: When life hands you a lemon - make lemonade.

[reswire]

Just remember, anyone can start a business, but it takes time, experience, good organizational skills, and great customer care to keep it running.  I used to run an electrical business in Southern Maryland, and every Tom, Dick and Harry, who bought a set of electrical tools at Home Depot was instantly a Master Electrician.  They did take customers from myself and other licensed, established electricians; but most of those customers were looking for a "deal", or too cheap to pay the poor sap when he was done.  Good customers know quality and will pay for it.  The others aren't worth the hassle.  Every time I tried to give someone a break in price, or some other perk,,, I paid for it dearly. >:(   I soon learned to love those "fly by nighters".  They took out the trash, and left licensed electricians with the folks who knew quality, and didn't mind paying a fair price for it.

  And now I step down from the pulpit.  The end.   ;D ;D   

[Dave Shepard]

When I first became interested in sawmills about 20 years ago there were about 25 bandmills in a twenty mile radius of my house. None of them were working full time and only a few we used intermittently. Today there is only one other mill running very much at all that I know if.

[OffGrid973]

Sounds like another pig roast to me, Texas vs almost canada, tough choice and maybe cheaper flight

[Delawhere Jack]

I can tell when I client has hired me as a demo and is interested in buying a WoodMizer. When they ask (and they always do), "how much did it cost?", I tell them $150,000.  :D (Just kidding.... I usually say $300,000)  ;D They always call me back for more milling within a year or two.  :D

[paul case]

If that's the worst troubles you have, I think you have got it made.

PC

[Idiocrates]

Guess this is the problem you're going to have to deal with when you have a Woodmizer distributor in your backyard....(Kirbyville).  I'm located further west than you and that's where I picked up my mill....an LT40HDG26.  Once I got it home I built a shed to "hide" it in so nobody would bug me to cut up anything for them.  Luckily I'm way out in the bushes and way off the main road so nobody but nobody can see when I do sumptin toopid.  All I cut is for myself and my son and for fun so other than losing my sawing business I'm not out to compete with anyone.  My biggest problem is finding saw logs (without lettin the cat out of the bag about the sawmill).  I pack around a Stihl MS880 with an Alaskan Mill attached to it so if someone does start to have "suspicions" I can let 'em pick up the mill so they'll understand when I decline their business.

[Solomon]

I did a lot of research before buying a brand new mill.  Wood Mizer makes a solid , great quality mill hands down.
However, they are very proprietary.
If you need parts, you're pretty much relegated to having to go to them for it.
This was one of the biggest reasons that I opted for the Log Master LM4.
It's a very tough machine, built from commonly available parts, a 51 hp Perkins Diesel , all hydraulic, max log size is  36" diameter and 24' long,  weighs
7500 LBS and cost me $32,000.00
I can get parts for it at the local suppliers and indutrial parks.
To top that off, it's comming up on ten years old and I have had almost zero trouble with it.
I have had to buy one battery and one alternator for it.
I get blades from Kenna-Saw  1 1/2 x 229"   for $27.00 each if I by 50 at a time.
  I am getting ready to replace some hydraulic hoses but it's been nearly a decade since it was new.
Log Master doesn't build mills anymore but they still offer parts, service and Tech support.
   Getting back to your point, I got started because of a guy with a WM LT-40
He sawed up some ERC for my cousin, and that was all she wrote, the bug had bitten me, I was addicted, it's been ten years and when I'm not working my regular job , I live and breathe to make saw dust and planer chips and cedar chests and ...........
I have had a few customers run out and buy a mill after I had done a couple jobs for them as well.
Every industry has it's pitfalls !
Not to worry though, most get tired of it very quickly and you can get a good deal on their gently used mill !!!!

[TKehl]

Time to build a kiln.

[scully]

  Living 3 miles from WM Hannibal I can say there are a bunch of mills around here . In a 5 mile radious I know of at least 5 . What I see are guys set up stationary , that have a nitch they mill for . I'm not sure if anyone else with a mill has had any impact on my portable work . last year I was about as busy as I wanted to be .  I also think allot of people buy mills just for their own use and maybe do some milling for friends etc. I don't depend on the income from my mill so I'm not as worried as some may be about "Mill Saturation" I got my mill mostly because I dreamed of owning one for many years .  It always seems that I have enough projects to do with it even if they don't pay . One thing to keep in mind is what model Wood-Mizer people have A guy with an LT10 or 15  wont pose much of a threat to a guy with a super 40 or even an lt35 . I have also seen guys that milled like crazy for years who have kind of hung it up , they keep their mill but some go years without even starting it up .  I'm not sure if I have made any points in my post here but I guess I would say don't worry about it I'm at orange ground zero and I'm surviving just fine .

[paul case]

Time to build a kiln.

Na, go buy one and then the folks that come and buy dry wood from you will want to know how they can have one too.  ;D

PC

[taylorsmissbeehaven]

Woodmizer gave me three names of folks I could contact to check out mills in my area. Two of them were dead, one never returned my call. Seem to be a lot of mills sitting. I bought an LT 15 anyway to cut timber off my land and build a barn. A tree service buddy asked for some lumber for a shed. I cut it for him and word got out and it took me a year to get caught up and start my barn! Just cutting on weekends doesn't take much to keep me busy. In the mix I found The Forestry Forum and began to see lots of folks in my area that have mills. I understand that folks running out and buying a mill right behind you could be frustrating, but I have found that the other sawyers can also be a good network. I have recommended others in my area and they have done the same for me. Most of us sawdust junkies are pretty good people so I also consider them and all the FF contacts friends now. Its nice to have a place to ask questions and get solid advice. Long story short, make the most of it they may turn out to be assets at the end of the day! Best of luck, Brian

[JustinW_NZ]

  Living 3 miles from WM Hannibal I can say there are a bunch of mills around here . In a 5 mile radious I know of at least 5 . What I see are guys set up stationary , that have a nitch they mill for . I'm not sure if anyone else with a mill has had any impact on my portable work . last year I was about as busy as I wanted to be .  I also think allot of people buy mills just for their own use and maybe do some milling for friends etc. I don't depend on the income from my mill so I'm not as worried as some may be about "Mill Saturation" I got my mill mostly because I dreamed of owning one for many years .  It always seems that I have enough projects to do with it even if they don't pay . One thing to keep in mind is what model Wood-Mizer people have A guy with an LT10 or 15  wont pose much of a threat to a guy with a super 40 or even an lt35 . I have also seen guys that milled like crazy for years who have kind of hung it up , they keep their mill but some go years without even starting it up .  I'm not sure if I have made any points in my post here but I guess I would say don't worry about it I'm at orange ground zero and I'm surviving just fine .

I agree with the statement about the smaller mills for sure.
There are other mills around my area but mostly older smaller ones or run by hobby type people.
Turning up with a well maintained and tuned 'super' mill seems to gurantee I get invited back.
Often the people work out that cheaper per hour does not equate to better value.

Cheers
Justin

[longtime lurker]

I'm with the guys who've said that owning a sawmilling does not make you a sawmiller, and that the cheapest isn't necessarily the best value.

Around here theres quite a few portable mills about, mostly swingmills but a few twins and a couple bands. There's only 5 guys in a 200 mile radius that I would recommend as actually being decent sawmillers though.

Contract sawing rate is pretty much the same whether you put timber into a sawmill or the sawmill comes to you, with the exception of freighting logs to the mill and lumber back.
You buy sawn timber from me you expect to pay between 25% and up to double what the weekend warriors will ask.

Theres always that guy that comes in - everyone that sells lumber or any other product knows this guy - saying how he can get this same thing at 2/3 the price down the road. And I nod and agree because they can buy it for 2/3 the price just down the road and if I wanted to build a chicken coop I'd buy there too. But if I wanted to pay a builder to build my house, when you factor in accuracy and straightness and grade stamping and H3 treatment, but above all when you factor in the extra time it costs to pay a crew of builders to argue with badly sawn timber... mine is still cheaper.

If you want to stop being an unpaid sales agent for a sawmill manufacturer maybe you need to explain things better. People think when they hire you that they're hiring a portable sawmill to cut their logs. In reality they're hiring a portable sawmill with an experienced operator who can turn your sows ears into silk purses. Stress the learning curve without being blatant about it... "it looks pretty easy and it is, but theres a lot going on between my ears in terms of maximising production and increasing recovery in the sizes you want while arguing with the stress from the bend in the log there and trying to position that knot so it has the lowest possible effect on the integrity of the boards" 

Because thats what an experienced sawyer is doing right? People respect skill and experience if they know its there. When it looks like the mill is doing the work, and not the miller, they start to think anyone can do it with the same results.

[Peter Drouin]

Most guys get a mill, Then find out how much work it is and sell the mill.
And you really have to like work to make a living with it full time.
smiley_biggrin01


All most forgot You need a pile of money to buy a few hundred logs FIRST, Then you can make 2x4s. :D :D :D :D :D ;D Then sell them. :D :D :D :D
I would not have any other way.

[Brucer]

11 years ago I was just checking out prices for a manual LT40. A friend said she knew of one not far from where she lived, that had been sitting idle for "at least 5 years". I found out the guy's name and he told me he and his brother installed flooring for a living and had been trying to make their own birch flooring. It didn't work out so well and the mill hadn't run for 7 years. He figured it was still worth a lot because it only had 300 hours on it. I told him the price I'd been quoted on a new mill and he cut the conversation short: "I'll have to talk to my brother. I'll get back to you." Never heard from him again :D.

In and around our tiny city there were at one time 5 other Wood-Mizers besides mine, plus 2  Norwoods and a couple of Woodland Mills.

When I started:

•   An electric LT40 Super, set up at the local pole mill to turn the oversized butts into lumber.
•   A portable LT40 Hydraulic that was doing mobile sawing full time.
•   A portable LT40 Hydraulic sitting in a farmer's yard. His son bought it for him as a retirement gift and he just uses it for farm projects.
•   A small Norwood that a guy bought for his own use. He doesn't use it much.

After I showed up on the scene:

•   A rancher with a home-made circle mill had a look at my WM and bought an LT40 hydraulic. He's had a contract for years cutting 2x8 x 8' dunnage for the local smelter. I sharpen his blades for him and he never tried to compete with me ;D.
•   A homesteader saw my mill and bought an LT28 to saw for his own use. He doesn't use it much.
•   Another homesteader upgraded from a Logosol CSM to a Woodland Mills, for his own use. I sharpen his blades as well, and he isn't interested in sawing for others.
•   A woodworker I'd sawed for bought a Norwood. His wife told me their yard is full of lumber but he isn't doing as much woodworking as he used to ;D.
•   A developer wanted me to saw a bunch of logs he was removing from a building site. He kept saying he'd come by to talk business but he never did. I heard later he had bought a Woodland Mills. Don't know how he's making out.

Since then:

• The pole mill lost their market for cants and eventually sold the mill. Up to that point they had put about 15,000 hours on two mills.
• The portable guy gave up sawing and got a full time union job after 15 years of sawing.
• And as of last November I had my milling site sold out from under me (with plenty of warning from the owners) and now I'm semi-retired  smiley_clapping. Except I'm doing some consulting work for a company that wants to add a bandmill to their operation, and it looks I'll be doing some experimental sawing for them as well. In the meantime I'm thinning the Cedar around the house for fire protection (again!) and I've got a nice whack of wood to saw in the summer .

A good cross-section of who buys a mill and who sticks with it.

[woodweasel]

Thanks !!!

[woodweasel]

All good stuff! Oh and I am getting a kiln 8)

[TKehl]

Time to build a kiln.

Na, go buy one and then the folks that come and buy dry wood from you will want to know how they can have one too.  ;D

PC

Let the arms race BEGIN!!  Muah ha ha!  (evil laugh)   :D 

[GAB]

All good stuff! Oh and I am getting a kiln 8)

You need to charge two different rates.
One rate for material that you sawed, higher rate for other material.
Just a suggestion.
Gerald

[woodweasel]

 I cant wait to p/u my lt40 hyd on the 28th of this month. Hopefully, the website that jeff is gonna build me will generate some $$.  If not i'll have fun making sawjust just like I did with my lt 35 manual :D :D

  

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[thecfarm]

On the other side of town is the WM dealer,about 10 minutes away.  I can't think of any WM in Chesterville,besides at the dealer. I suppose there are some. They might be like my mill,drive by my place and you would not see it.I see more Thomas Bandsaw Mills around then WM. Thomas is about an hour from me. The only sawyer that I know of is about an hour away with a WM.
I hear the money tales of buying a manual sawmill, : it's a hard,hard,hard way to make money.