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Do I need a CDL to haul my own stuff?

Started by Greyman, January 04, 2019, 09:49:06 PM

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terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on January 06, 2019, 02:39:44 PMOver 10000 pounds combined GVWR + in business + crossing state line = become subject to federal (USDOT, FMCSA) code.
Was getting at that above.  

Note that there are 3 criteria to enter this Bermuda Triangle.  

Imagine.....four pickup trucks approaching a state line.  

1) One is a 3/4 ton pulling a big boat, heading toward the boat launch.
2) Second is a 1 ton dually pulling an RV 5th wheel who knows how many GVWR.
3) Third is a 1 ton pulling an LT40 Super going to a sawing job.
4) Fourth is a half ton pulling a landscaping trailer with weedwhackers & lawn mowers going to a mowing job.

None have USDOT numbers.  Which of the above can sail across the border without breaking the law?   What activity is being discriminated against?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Southside

Well, my assumption is the first guy is going to get pulled at the state line when they check for muscles on the hull of the boat, at which time he will be shut down and they will discover his U-Ship paperwork, promptly hauling him off to jail. 

The $80K RV 5th wheel, being towed by a $75K dually is probably packed full of dogs headed to a dog show so the state Agriculture folks will shut them down and tow them off when they discover the 15 year old, retired, Golden Retriever riding shotgun has a rabies certificate that is expired by three days.

Nobody has a clue what the LT40 is, so that guy will ride on by as it looks light weight and the DOT guy see the weed wackers hanging on the side of the trailer behind him and they know the odds are he is NOT using DOT approved gas cans and there is no way those mowers are secured to the trailer, so they get the guy with the spike strip and chase vehicles ready in case this "Outlaw" tries to make a run for it.  

Some of you will think I am joking here.... 

Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Southside

Guess I should have asked - are they crossing into California?  If so they all need to go through the road side bug inspection station, if any of them have veggies grown in their own garden then the DOT violations will be dismissed in the plea bargain of 10 - 15 years in the state pen for importation of un-inspected produce.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

rjwoelk

I drive for a company that looks after all the dos and donts. But if they are lookin for something they can find it.

Good morning Sawguy.  I am in kelowna getting a new starter for the kenworth. Was a mexed bag of weatheŕ yesterday coming fown the 97A.
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

Greyman

Quote from: Southside logger on January 08, 2019, 12:27:02 PM
Some of you will think I am joking here....
Not me.  I used to know a Hwy Patrol guy, he would try and get his buddies to go on ride-arounds with him.  I never did but my friends did.  He would jump in and say "ok, lets get 10 tickets real quick then we can mess around for a while".  He would then respond to anything "interesting" (his words) that came up, especially high speed chases.  He loved to flip on the lights and floor it then push the local cops around.  He eventually got kicked out, which was good to hear, but there are definitely some out there in it for the fun, excitement, and power-tripping.

SawyerTed

Greyman, I suggest you talk directly with your state's division of motor vehicles, your state's motor carrier enforcement agency (here it is State Highway Patrol) or talk to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration.    There's been a lot of good information shared here but we don't write citations.  There are some variations in regulations state to state.  What may apply here may not be uniformly enforced there.  One example is NC requires a USDOT number for intrastate operation.

One issue that hasn't been raised is the regulations vary based on what you are hauling.  I need a medical card to haul lumber but not for logs.

I applied for my USDOT number on Sunday morning.  It took an hour or so.  I received authority to operate on Monday and I received a call from FMCSA to review my application.  During the application review I was able to ask all my questions as they relate to my specific situation. It was tremendously helpful.  
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

terrifictimbersllc

Very easy to get a USDOT #.   Also easy to get the rule book from JJKeller.    It's 3" thick.  Not so easy to sleep at night once you start reading it.  Best to have a retired trooper friend or other such coach to keep it all in perspective.  Finding someone at an FMCSA office who you can talk to on the phone is also helpful. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Greyman

A DOT tag is only required if you are engaged in commerce, the way I read it.   Do I need a DOT tag?   I'm not, but I'm sure others here are and can use the info.

SawyerTed

Check the FMCSA website. My understanding is if you are over 10,001 pounds a DOT number is required.  Exceptions are RVs, horse trailers and certain agricultural activities.  You would be a private (not for hire) carrier.  But I've been wrong before.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on January 08, 2019, 10:54:29 AMImagine.....four pickup trucks approaching a state line.   1) One is a 3/4 ton pulling a big boat, heading toward the boat launch. 2) Second is a 1 ton dually pulling an RV 5th wheel who knows how many GVWR. 3) Third is a 1 ton pulling an LT40 Super going to a sawing job. 4) Fourth is a half ton pulling a landscaping trailer with weedwhackers & lawn mowers going to a mowing job. None have USDOT numbers.  Which of the above can sail across the border without breaking the law?   What activity is being discriminated against?
Answer key:  1 and 2.  Activity is commerce. The first two in the example are not in commerce (if they were, then they would also be in violation, for example a dealer delivering a boat or RV across a state line).  US constitution gives authority to federal govt. to regulate commerce.  

Once I needed to take a U-Haul car carrier trailer across two state lines to get my daughters car.  I called and asked a trooper in the destination state if I would get in trouble. He said if I get stopped, to use the statement "I am not in commerce".

Also I talked to an FMCSA official on the phone about the regs a number of times.  One of the things he told me was that the FMCSA/USDOT rules are applied on a per trip basis with respect to whether you are in commerce or not-on that trip.  So towing an RV on vacation is not regulated by FMCSA whereas  towing  to a job (over 10000# GCWR, across state line) is regulated by FMCSA.

DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Skip

A lot of pipeline welders with their own rigs found out all of a sudden (the hard way >:( ??? :P ) that they needed DOT numbers around here . The states around here figured out they were leaving a lot of money on the table.

gspren

Since the Uni-Mog looks big, heavy, and commercial I would at least get a price on one flat-bed load hauled commercially by someone else. If the price is reasonable load as much on that load as possible.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

Greyman

Follow up on this...  I ended up getting a 14k GVWR bumper pull trailer derated to 11k to be under the 26k GVWC limit for a CDL.  I just got back from a Houston-Minneapolis-Boise-Houston trip of 4,750 miles.  I bypassed all weigh stations as they said "over 26k" or "commercial" and I didn't get stopped once.  I went thru 11 states:  TX, OK, KS, MO, IA, MN, ND, MT, ID, WY, CO, NM.  I took a combination of interstates and "shortcuts" in about 5 days of driving (950 miles/day avg) and crossed state lines at all hours of the day and night (i.e. open and closed weigh stations).  So, anecdotal evidence for sure, but I didn't get checked and I would have passed if I would have (except for the gung-ho cops who would have found the smallest thing).  I also carried bill-of-sales and titles of equipment to prove it was my own equipment.  I have 3 similar trips coming up this summer - I hope they are all as uneventful!  Except for running the diesel dry in the middle of Montana at 5am, after discovering that the low fuel light gives me about 10 miles before it conks out...  Yeah, learned that lesson real *DanG quick. 
The 60 miles of heavily wash-boarded single lane dirt road at the end would have had a commercial driver dropping the load right there, I'm sure of that.  I drove it at night since that way you can see lights coming and hold up to let them pass (didn't see a soul though).  Otherwise you're swinging wide to make the turn and at 10 mph can't get out of the way.
 


 

Southside

Glad to hear it was a success.  Just an observation - you need to secure your buggy using a 4pt or 4 corner method of tying it down, that right there would be enough to get pulled over going down the road.  I would also use two chains on the plow, should something happen you have twice the security of it staying on your truck. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

moodnacreek

That's what everyone says, 4 chains but I read that's for 10,000 lbs. and over .

muggs

950 miles a day!!!  Wow!   Did you check your fuel mi.?

sawguy21

Yeah! How do you keep your log book legal with those kind of miles?
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Greyman

Yes, this was right after loading.  I did throw some more chains and straps on it once I got down the road.  The guy I bought it from wanted to load it his way and was in a hurry - one of those "its how I did it once and I didn't have a problem" people so I let him do it his way.  It was in low gear with parking brake on, but still it only had one chain from keeping it rolling back which would have created a very unstable fishtailing load.  That's what worried me the most.  Would have liked more chains on the plow but saved the two others I had for the Unimog.  It had 3 heavy straps on it in addition to the chain.
Yeah, a lot of driving for sure.  I was traveling alone so I stopped and slept in the cab whenever I was tired, and drove when I wasn't.  Packed food and water with me.  That makes it very efficient.  I had a 2-day break in the middle and I definitely caught up on sleep then.  Not something you want to do for more than a couple days in a row, for sure.
No CDL = no driving log.  With a CDL you can drive 11 hours in a 14 hour work day (i.e 3 hours for fueling, checking load, doing log book, etc.) each 24 hours.  I definitely did more hours than that.

Greyman

On fuel mileage - empty (but with 2,500lb counterweight on truck bed that you can't see) I was getting about 13 mpg.  For a heavy truck with trailer I was surprised, I only get 14 mpg (gas) with my '01 Tundra empty.  Loaded, going thru Montana with hills and a very strong headwind, I bet I was only getting 5 mpg.  I lost track.  The aerodynamics went to hell with the Unimog on there.  lol   With diesel at 2.69-3.19/gal it definitely added up...  

caveman

The Unimog is an impressive machine.  They are on my list of cool vehicles along with model A trucks, Willys jeeps/ pick ups, old power wagons, 79 and earlier broncos, and several cars from the late 60's.

I often wonder how the small businessman makes a go of it with all of the rules, certifications, licenses, taxes and insurance needed just to be eligible to operate.  
Caveman

Greyman

I don't use mine on public roads.  The top speed of these older ones is about 45 mph empty - put the dozer blade and crane on and it's about 30 mph.  I treat it like a tractor, which is what many do - not registered, put an orange triangle on it, etc.  It can be a hassle to register them depending on the state for several reasons, starting with the VIN not having enough digits.  From what I understand, though there are varied reports/opinions, you can't import new ones into the US since they don't meet DOT and EPA.  They have to be more than 25 years old to be exempt.  A brand new one starts at around $250k in Germany so doubt I'll ever have to worry about it... lol  They sure are nice though.  You can buy a '79 like this one in the US for $10-20k (varies a lot due to condition and limited numbers of them), and you have to be prepared to do all your own work on it because there are only a few shops in the US who specialize in them.  They are very reliable and durable, but parts can be very expensive and hard to find.  

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