adding remote hydraulics to timberjack 230a to run a forwarding trailer?

[Sunrise Farms]

Hi guys, I just bought a used primero log trailer and I'm trying to figure out how to hook it up to my skidder. It's an 84 timberjack 230a.
Can I just put a 'T' on both main hoses going into  and out of the hydraulic bank with quick disconnects? Then run a line to a valve from tractor supply I mount somewhere in the cab?

It makes sense to me, but I'm no hydraulic expert.

I'm also going to need some welding done for a hitch (removable).

Thanks guys!

[Knocker of rocks]

Can I just put a 'T' on both main hoses going into  and out of the hydraulic bank with quick disconnects? Then run a line to a valve from tractor supply I mount somewhere in the cab?

You'll lose some to all your flow to either bank when doing work, because the fluid will choose to follow the easiest path.  Your best be is either a selector valve so you are either loader or skidder, or plumb out of a Power Beyond port in your skidders main valve bank. 

Using the power beyond depending on your configuration could require three hoses: pressure from PB, return, and continuation of PB.  A selector could use just two, pressure and return, but your pressure release in the valve must be appropriately sized for the pressure and volume of your machine.  You will also lose the ability to use loader and skidder hydraulics simultaneously.

[Sunrise Farms]

Ok, so I just looked at it. The two main hoses go into the bank, then there are the three functions. At the end there is one large plug. I'm going to assume that is the power beyond port.
After that I'm unclear. Can I go from the power beyond, to the inlet of a new valve/bank, the the outlet go back to a 'T' in the return of the main valve bank?

Also, the trailer has an articulating hitch, so my new valve bank will need two levers/ functions. I'm assuming the one to run the loader will need a detent to stay on when I go to run the loader?

[oldseabee]

First, you have to find out if the main valve is machined to accept a  power beyond sleeve (basically a short pipe with an o ring on each end) behind that big plug. What the power beyond sleeve does is to block off the return to tank chamber in the main valve and send the return oil from the main valve to the next valve to make it work and then return to tank from the second valve, you will be able to use any function on either valve separately but not at the same time. you then have to disconnect the return to tank hose from the main valve and plug the port, then run a new hose from the return to tank port on the new valve to the tank. This will work if you have an open center system, not sure how it will do with a closed center system. you will have to have quick connects on the hoses from the trailer and keep them clean so you don't get any trash in the system.

[Sunrise Farms]

Here is a picture of the hydraulic bank:


The feed/ return are on the right. There is a plug looking thing above them, and a plug all the way to the left kinda in the dark.

[oldseabee]

I'll have to defer to one of the Timber Jack members on this valve, don't want to steer you wrong by not knowing whats in there. I know that on the Clark cable there is a steer and blade valve, if you add a grapple, you add a power beyond sleeve to the steer and blade valve, then route the oil to the grapple valve, add a return to tank line to the tank,plug the return to tank port on the steer and blade valve, plumb the grapple and go.

[bushmechanic]

Hello sunrise farms I don't know if you still have that 230D timberjack forwarder but the system you are looking to install on the skidder is the same on the forwarder. The pressure line leaves the pump and goes to the steering valve and from there out the power beyond to the loader valve behind the cab, then returns to the hydraulic tank. The only difference in the forwarder steering valve and the skidder valve is the absence of the winch control section. If you install a power beyond with quick connects you will have to join them together when only using the skidder by itself or the system will go into relief with the lines not joined up.

[timberlinetree]

Always thought the skidder/trailer thing was a good idea for some areas.

[Sunrise Farms]

Bushmechanic, yes I still have the forwarder for now. I bought this trailer to replace it though. The Detroit is just too loud, and there are certain places I just can't get with it. You have been very helpful to me over the years.

It sounds like in order to use the power beyond I need some special sleeve thing with an oring. Is this something a local parts store would have? Then go to the new valves, then return into the current return (after removing it from the original valves and plugging the port)?

[Jhenderson]

I haven't seen anyone ask the important question. How many gpm is the skidder hydraulic  system?  You'll need quite a bit more for a loader than for a cable machine and the pump is just the beginning.

[Sunrise Farms]

I don't know the specific gpm requirement of this trailer but it isn't much. It came with a power pac with a10 hp gas motor and a super tiny hydraulic pump. I'm certain the pump on the skidder is large enough.

[David-L]

Sunrise Farm, I have a trailer and would like to see your set up when you get it complete as I would like to do the same.. i am in petersham and travel through Colrain once and awhile. Theres a logger in Royalston mass with a 440B and a trailer and he says it works well for him. Good luck and hope to see this setup. Please pm me .

[Sunrise Farms]

I will let you know and post a picture. I bought it planning to buy a tractor to pull it, but figured I'd at least see how hard it was to get the skidder set up

[bushmechanic]

 The power beyond is a sleeve that lets the oil flow on downstream to the next valve as oldseabee has explained. I'm pretty sure the valve in the machine is a Cessna but not positive. You will have to get a hydraulics shop to get you a power beyond for that particular valve or out of an old forwarder steering valve. I think those Cessna valves were specfic to Timberjack and pricey to get parts for as you had to go to the dealer for them.

[Neilo]

My 230d just has a fourth valve added to the left of the winch valve. I am pretty sure it is a tj dozer valve.

But there are probably cheaper ways to do it apart from finding a dozer valve or two.

[Sunrise Farms]

Yes, it's a cessna valve. I talked to Francis Brown (local timberjack guru) on the phone yesterday. He said he could probably get it set up like a grapple skidder, but needed to think about it a like bit.

[Sunrise Farms]

Francis gave me the number to a hydraulic shop in nh, which basically said they dont make cessna stuff anymore so they can't get me a power beyond sleeve. They said the power beyond sleeve really only adds strength because that side of the body wasnt cast large enogh to take the pressure. Francis seemed to think you just kinda take the plug out and put a line on it. I'm sure he's rebuilt a hundred of these, but never been asked to really modify one.

I'm not sure what to do now.

The hydraulic shop suggested adding a three way valve before the cessna body, which would work, except I kinda need to be using the articulating hitch around the same time as the steering in the skidder (but I realize I can't use them at the EXACT same time)

If I remove the power beyond sleeve from my skidder, a machine shop should be able to make one?

I'm also thinking about ditching the articulating hitch and just going the three way valve route.

[bushmechanic]

  I'm sure your buddie is wrong on the strength idea and just adding the line won't work. Your skidder valve don't have a power beyond on it now but the forwarder valve do.  If you had to get one machined just remove it from the forwarder valve get it made and put it back. The selector valve would be simpler. I put a backhoe attachment on an S7 Hough skidder with a selector valve and that worked perfectly.

[Sunrise Farms]

I've been thinking about this for a few days now. Can I put the three way valve on the winch out port, and basically use the winch valve for power? A three way valve on that would be much easier to install and turn when needed, plus it shouldnt need another valve off to the side of the cab. Just go from the three way valve to the back of the machine ending in a female quick coupler. Then a house back to a T in the flow out of the winch valve section? Just pull the winch lever down to detent to send flow back to the trailer instead of the winch. Would I need a three way valve on the return also? I'm thinking not

[Neilo]

That winch circuit is only 450 or 550psi. And there are delay popets for the release of pressure. Just for you to consider.

As I said, I have an extra dozer valve added to do what you are describing.

[Sunrise Farms]

An extra valve section would work great, but I have no way of getting one. Looking at my forwarder, the valve section look similar as in the same brand, but they are different enough I doubt the power beyond sleeve isn't the same.

I suppose the only option is a selector valve before the whole valve unit.

Could I do what I was thinking with the selector valve on the blade instead? And just bungee cord it down when I need it for the trailer?

[thecfarm]

Seem like another member did what you are going to do. Those are not set up to go where a skidder can go.Load light and you might do ok. Seems like a good idea.

[bushmechanic]

 Your best bet is the selector valve. It's only one valve and the piping plus it will work without any extra performances like you are talking about, just move the valve lever one way for the machine and the other way for the trailer. It is put before the steering/dozer/winch valve the one line to the pressure port of the steering/dozer/winch the the other line out of the selector valve will go to the pressure port of the trailer loader valve. The return can T into a return line on the skidder as there is no pressure on it.

[Sunrise Farms]

I purchased a selector valve, but it won't come until the end of the week or so. Then I'll have to get all the firings/ adapters figured out.

I'm thinking of putting it on the dozer blade in/ out. Only because it is easier to get at to plumb and operate the selector valve than the main in and outs.

Thanks guys!

[Sunrise Farms]

I'm also thinking that with the selector valve on the dozer section I can use another selector valve to run the articulating hitch with the dozer lever while still being able to use the skidder steering while driving.