I had this question sent to me.
I'm posting it to see what your thoughts is on this question:
I am looking for a sanity check and didn't want to clog up the board. I have never purchased logs before so this is a first for me.
I had a guy call me and offer to sell me a Black Walnut tree with a 36" base, 30 feet to the crotch. He will drop the tree, cut the trunk into 10 foot sections and also every branch over 8 inches in diameter and deliver to my yard for 1500.00. Is this a good price? Just curious if I am in the ballpark on this?
I would never buy a tree.
I would never agree to a price until I have inspected the logs for split, disease, metal, etc.
I would never buy the logs if this is a yard tree until I speak to the home owner who owns the tree.
Just a few things I thought about.
If its a tree service selling this tree....sometimes ya gotta get things checked out. ;D
You need the dia. at 30 foot to figure the bd. foot. the stump end means nothing other than to look for defect. What about metal?
If I could metal detect it I would be paying $ 1.oo bd. ft. Maybe more.
I
David,
I think it is a great price for him. I think you can make a profit on it but unless you already have a market I would think it is going to take you a good while to realize such a profit or even break even. Are you planning to store it in your new showroom?
I assume you can cut everything on your mill if you decide to slab it which is what I did with one log nearly that size I had slabbed back in March. I'd cut it 9/4 or bigger and market for at least $10/bf and raise the price even more as it dries. Selling 1-2 slabs would break even for purchase cost. I'd bet the butt log returns about 500 bf or more if it is sound and metal free. One mistake I made on our second cut was we hit a nail and I cut the slab at 6' leaving a 4' piece. Since the nail was on the edge I should have left the slab intact. The customer could have edged off that 4-6 inches and still had a 28" live edge 9/4 slab with one live edge.
I'd think the tops and limbs would make nice cookies/ovals but again you need to protect them with anchorseal and sawdust and such and expect to have them a long time.
I'd try to negotiate a lower purchase price or work out a sharing arranged but then again, I am from WV and we love to barter. Good luck.
I probably wouldn't pay that much for a tree even if it was YEW wood! :D Humpy Wheeler came by my sawmill couple years ago and taught me all about it!
Quote from: WV Sawmiller on July 31, 2018, 06:49:36 PM
Are you planning to store it in your new showroom?
I can assure you this question has nothing to do with me. :D
David,
Storage and display are relevant IMHO because it will affect how much handling is involved and how long the wood will be stored before the buyer realizes his return on investment. Location is relevant - you could move such product faster than me because of your proximity to Charlotte while my neighbors are mostly edible wildlife.
If the person posing this question is in a more remote area I'd offer even less for the logs because he will have more handling and storage involved. If he does not have a wide mill like you do he is going to have to use or find a slabber (like I did in March) with even more initial cost incurred.
Depending on quality that could be a bargain. Example . I just sold a 6ft long 36in diameter log for 1500 dollars. That's wholesale
Let me elaborate a little. Around here I can get anywhere from 2 to 8 dollars a bf for walnut veneer and table logs . If its 36in and clean without much taper I'd get up to about 3500 just for the first 8ft 8in butt log. The 6ft table log I just sold for 1500 is pictured here. If it would have been 8ft 8in i would have got a lot more.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20180730_122019.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1533084866)
Busysawyer,
:o :oLooking at that load Does that tail ever wag the dog???
mr busysawyer has it nailed. Depends on the butt log quality. IF nice just buy it and pass it down the road to a veneer buyer at $4/bdft or more and smile. If you see metal (and walnut stains so you can see a bit up and down the metal) walk on by.
One off tree / log sales always scare me. There is a reason the seller is going to this length.
D.patton. Yes the tail wags the dog everytime. I hate to admit it but I've actually had quite a bit more on the trailer a few times. That was a 35mph take the backroads 23 miles to the buyer with my dad following with the 4 ways on. I'm in farm country and can get away with it. Going to look at a 35ft gooseneck later this week. I've pretty much wrecked that little trailer
Mr. Widehead. I'm not sure what your market is where you are at but here is another example pic. This tree was a little more than 30ft to the first crotch about 24in diameter. I cut a 8ft 4in saw log off the shovel butt. Then a clean 10ft 6in log and another clean 10ft 6in. Log. The front two logs which were the second and third logs up the tree sold wholesale for 4 dollars bf and all I had to do was make a phone call. I milled the shovel butt and wholesaled that lumber for an average of about 3 dollars a bf.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/49432/20180712_180638.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1533088153)
David, The walnut trees in our area that are really big, that I have fell, are dying and are hollow in the center. Granted, this tree may be solid. If the butt log is 36" and 8' long, you could sale 2 or 3 kd slabs and pay for the whole tree.
I get these types of inquiries very often because people know I buy high grade logs. So here's how I price them. So for every 30 foot log there will be three distinct purchase decisions, one for every log, the butt cut, the second cut and the third cut, which should be just shy of the first major fork. Crotch wood doesn't count and is deducted. Typically the butt cut log of a forest grown tree will be highest grade whereas the butt cut of a yard tree, with the probability of nails, rot, cavities, damage, would not be the highest grade log. The second cut may be as good as the butt cut, but rarely is and sometimes is included as a butt/first cut option, but most times is not as a knowledgeable seller knows they will take a beating by Doyle at the small diameter end of a long cut 20 footer as opposed to the Doyle at the small end of two 10 footers. I smile anytime someone wants to sell me a double long walnut log as I grade for worst face and smallest end diameter.
Sapwood ring thickness also plays into value, as the highest value logs have the smallest ring thickness, and because the logs are scaled on the bark, white wood is waste wood, unless it is being sold to an operation that has a steam kiln. You have to pay for it but it usually gets trimmed off. I understand double live edge slabs will have sapwood, but I never buy a log on what it can make as slabs, but what it can make as usable lumber.
Limbs are not of monetary value, as they spend their entire existence defying the pull of gravity, and when cut and dried without the force of gravity will usually bow badly. Most limb wood is DOA so doesn't enter into the sales picture. As a freebie maybe, but logs are logs and limbs are limbs.
Stress and pith checks also greatly deduct from walnut logs. Can't make a board out of a log that has as many splits as a pizza has slices.
So in order to get a real idea of the value of the offer, they should send you the circumference measurement at the small end of each predicted log, and pictures. From there you can predict diameter, grade and set a price accordingly. Sawlog grade walnut here goes wholesale for $1 to $1.50 per bdft. Two CF, over 16 inches and up may go for $2.50, while 3 CF will go for $3 to 3.50. True 4 CF or very large, butt cut 3 CF can go upward from there, way upward, but very rarely is a log a true 4CF. I have seen them frm $5 to $8 per bdft.
We buy a decent amount of walnut logs and there is nothing worse than writing a monster check for a smallish load of walnut logs only to saw into them and find less than paid for grade.
By my experience, professional log brokers want generally what the logs may be worth, but everyone else wants about twice what they are worth, if graded realistically.
Just my experience from the North Alabama/Southern Tn walnut market.
Clear face.
Last report Ohio was around $700 per thousand ,all grades .About $2500 more or less for prime .Not every mill is interested in them though .There is somewhat of a "niche" market for gun stock blanks but I think they might use I believe claro not black walnut .However as a rule I doubt one tree would be of interest to most timber buyers as opposed to a truck load .
What few local mills here often sell the sawdust for horse bedding and walnut sawdust can cause problems with the horses .