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American elm?

Started by Peacock, April 11, 2013, 05:58:47 PM

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Peacock

Cut quite a bit of this lately.  All healthy trees removed for ROW.

  

 
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Peacock

I'd read somewhere that the creamy white layers in the bark indicate American elm.  It's stringy, heavy and wet.  Just like any elm I've cut, save for the dead standing variety.
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S.Hyland

It looks like elm to me. I see it occasionally in my area. What are you planning to do with it?
"It may be that when we no longer know which way to go that we have come to our real journey. The mind that is not baffled is not employed. The impeded stream is the one that sings."
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Peacock

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WDH

Those creamy layers in the rhytidome (inner bark) are present in american elm but not in red elm (slippery elm).  Put that in your bag of tree ID tricks  ;D.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

SwampDonkey

The stuff rots fast too. The mushrooms seem to love it. :D But there was a 48" white elm that died nearby in the late 80's and there isn't hardly any sign of it left now. Pretty much all soil. I suppose it's been 25 years now.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Al_Smith

Elm by it's very nature makes some of the best split resistant planks you can think of .Besides that it will bend like a  noodle under heavy strain that would break oak .It gets lighter as it dries out whereas oak always stays heavy as if it were made of lead .

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: WDH on April 14, 2013, 05:23:05 PM
Those creamy layers in the rhytidome (inner bark) are present in american elm but not in red elm (slippery elm).  Put that in your bag of tree ID tricks  ;D.

Winged elm has the creamy layers, too! :)
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

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Dodgy Loner

Quote from: Al_Smith on April 14, 2013, 07:45:16 PM
Elm ... gets lighter as it dries out whereas oak always stays heavy as if it were made of lead .

Your oak must be a lot different than mine, because mine gets a lot lighter as it dries out.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Al_Smith

Probabely so but mine was pretty dry when it was cut and it's still heavy as lead after 6-8 years of air drying .

I've got a set of red oak planks ,4 by 12 by 8 feet long that were cut close to 30 years ago .I have a tough time lifting them now .Of course I'm a tad older too.

SPIKER

One thing it seems the "RED" (Slippery Elm) seemed to live a lot longer, I have some big ones on my place that are recent dead due to the bugs.   there are some white/winged elms too but they live about long enough to drop seeds for a year or two then croak.

Other uses were for barn floor, stall walls/fence in old days & wagon sides/floors.   the RED ELM does stand up well to rot vs white though not as resistant as white oak on the rot scale.   Hear tell there were some other uses for it but been so long ago I can't really remember what it was.   It takes getting wet & drying out repeatedly & retains strength (springy as mentioned) probably why it was used a lot for barn floors.   

Mark
I'm looking for help all the shrinks have given up on me :o

Okrafarmer

Quote from: Dodgy Loner on April 14, 2013, 08:47:57 PM
Quote from: WDH on April 14, 2013, 05:23:05 PM
Those creamy layers in the rhytidome (inner bark) are present in american elm but not in red elm (slippery elm).  Put that in your bag of tree ID tricks  ;D.

Winged elm has the creamy layers, too! :)

But winged elm has wings. Which means if you see the wings, you can only confuse it with----
Sweetgum.
:snowball:
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SwampDonkey

Quote from: Al_Smith on April 14, 2013, 09:04:47 PM
Probabely so but mine was pretty dry when it was cut and it's still heavy as lead after 6-8 years of air drying .

I've got a set of red oak planks ,4 by 12 by 8 feet long that were cut close to 30 years ago .I have a tough time lifting them now .Of course I'm a tad older too.

If they are dried down to 12% MC they are no heavier than hard maple or beech. They have a lot more water in them when green than either the other two. Just look at the physical data which is posted in various tables and the Wood Handbook. 45 lb/ft3 when @12 % MC. Lots of old tales and myths out there. ;) I've lifted lots of hard maple planking in a potato shed. We used them over head the bins for flooring, so we could roll a bin piler in onto them. The piler was set up to deliver taters to a 20' long vertical drop shoot where the taters dropped into to fill up the bins. I don't remember them 3" thick planks being too light.

The shoot was in 2 foot sections that you unhooked as the bin filled. The fun part was if the shoot plugged and you had a shower of taters raining down on ya. I don't miss any of that crap one bit. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

Quote from: Okrafarmer on April 14, 2013, 09:35:52 PM
But winged elm has wings. Which means if you see the wings, you can only confuse it with----
Sweetgum.
:snowball:

What if your just looking at logs and blocking like in the photo? Sometimes we don't have all the pieces to solve the mystery (ie. leaves and twigs, sometimes no bark either). ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: SwampDonkey on April 15, 2013, 04:19:40 AM
Quote from: Okrafarmer on April 14, 2013, 09:35:52 PM
But winged elm has wings. Which means if you see the wings, you can only confuse it with----
Sweetgum.
:snowball:

What if your just looking at logs and blocking like in the photo? Sometimes we don't have all the pieces to solve the mystery (ie. leaves and twigs, sometimes no bark either). ;)

And winged elm doesn't always have wings. The wings are bigger and more obvious on young, vigorous trees. Mature, slow-growing specimens often have no wings at all.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

mesquite buckeye

Love the smell of fresh cut elm. Reminds me of being 5 years old. :) :) :)
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

SwampDonkey

A lot of people would consider the smell of white elm to be like horse urine. Thus given the label **** elm.  ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Al_Smith

Horse pee quite truthfully probabley smells better than elm sawdust or oak for that matter .Maybe a pole is in order .

I hereby nominate Swampish to be the official smeller of both the sawdust plus the horse pee ,I need a second . ;D

SwampDonkey

Well I don't know what the pole will be used for, unless your putting up a flag. Maybe you'd rather take a poll instead. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

WDH

I have met many a wingless winged elm. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

mesquite buckeye

Quote from: SwampDonkey on April 15, 2013, 07:35:06 PM
A lot of people would consider the smell of white elm to be like horse urine. Thus given the label **** elm.  ::)

smiley_airfreshener smiley_furious splitwood_smiley boxingsmiley smiley_paparazzi no_no smiley_argue01 smiley_furious3 bat_smailey bat_smailey smiley_whip smiley_whip smiley_whip smiley_whip smiley_whip

Well, I like the smell.   >:( 8) 8) 8) 8) :snowfight1:
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Al_Smith

Well Swampish has never replied yeah or nay about the aroma of horse pee .He only made reference to the likeness of elm saw dust  not weather he liked it or not . :D

Wudman

Quote from: Peacock on April 14, 2013, 05:09:54 PM
It'll be firewood.

Elm is the absolute devil to split.  If you hit it with a splitting hammer or ax it will come flying back at you.  A hydraulic splitter will mash it into. 

Wudman
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Charlie Daniels
July 4, 2020 (2 days before his death)

Al_Smith

It's resiliancy is why it was favored for wagon tongues ,wooden axles and parts of wooden spoked wheels .

Peacock

Quote from: Wudman on April 17, 2013, 02:59:08 PM
Quote from: Peacock on April 14, 2013, 05:09:54 PM
It'll be firewood.

Elm is the absolute devil to split.  If you hit it with a splitting hammer or ax it will come flying back at you.  A hydraulic splitter will mash it into. 

Wudman

Well so far this stuff is much easier to split than what I've done in the past.
Stihl saws
Kubota tractor
Cummins turbo diesel

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