blades for frozen logs

JB Griffin · January 11, 2017, 09:38:35 PM

Jclvsall do ya'll have any trouble with the 2" blades cupping?

4x4American · January 11, 2017, 10:43:06 PM

The WM turbo blades worked great for me up until I got into frozen logs. Then I found regular 7's and Kasco 7's set at .012" work the best for me. The big boys put what is called a frost notch in their blades. It is because frozen sawdust doesn't act like regular sawdust, it rolls in the gullet like a snowball (iirc). The frost notch is put in back from the tip of the tooth in the gullet, and it breaks up the snowballed sawdust. I have seen it done only on 8" and 12" wide bands. The saw filer was telling me that I can emulate this concept by cutting a flat spot at the back of the gullet behind the tooth.

Try reducing your set down around .012", it was night and day for me. Cleared all the sawdust and cut flat.

JB Griffin · January 12, 2017, 12:49:30 PM

Might just have to try that 4x4. Thanks

jclvsall · January 12, 2017, 06:37:05 PM

Nope they do great

4x4American · January 12, 2017, 10:20:38 PM

No problem, gmmills told me he has gone as far down as .010", and to conduct your testing in increments of .003" and also that if your blade is heating, you don't have enough set.

I have found that when I have too little set, I get a cup on the cant.

When I was dropping off carbide blades at the big grade mill today I got a picture of that frost notch I mentioned. It might be hard to see in the picture. This is on a 12" double cut saw.

barbender · January 12, 2017, 10:46:20 PM

I think I remember seeing a Simonds blade that had some sort of frost notch.

JB Griffin · January 13, 2017, 07:32:27 PM

Thanks Fellers lot to think about. Brian are ya'll running the bullet guides or rollers?

Oliver05262 · January 13, 2017, 09:15:29 PM

A dumb question from a mechanic 'cause I'm not familiar with saw filing. What are the circle marks at the bottom of the gullet?

Kbeitz · January 13, 2017, 09:48:08 PM

Quote from: Oliver05262 on January 13, 2017, 09:15:29 PM
A dumb question from a mechanic 'cause I'm not familiar with saw filing. What are the circle marks at the bottom of the gullet?

Hey. I was wondering the same thing.

paul case · January 13, 2017, 09:48:50 PM

Not a dumb question. I was wondering the same thing.

PC

etroup10 · January 13, 2017, 10:42:22 PM

Here are the notched tooth blades I was talking about.

And what the cut looked like(I didn't wipe any sawdust off after the cut)

barbender · January 14, 2017, 12:06:05 AM

Etroupe, Lenox Chipsweep is what those are called, I think.

etroup10 · January 14, 2017, 01:04:58 AM

Quote from: barbender on January 14, 2017, 12:06:05 AM
Etroupe, Lenox Chipsweep is what those are called, I think.

I looked those up, these look the same but they are from a local saw manufacturer. They weld there bands there and sharpen. I saw that the lenox ones online for $33. From the local saw shop I think they were $18.50 for a 14'6" band.

4x4American · January 14, 2017, 06:46:30 AM

Reply #26 people! It's the marks from making the frost notch.

Peter Drouin · January 14, 2017, 09:01:33 AM

Vise marks to hold the blade, count the rings will tell how many times it was done. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Kbeitz · January 14, 2017, 09:46:13 AM

My guess would be 6 times ?

Ox · January 14, 2017, 01:29:39 PM

I find saw blade science interesting. Does this make me a loser in today's society? Next question: do I care if I'm a loser in today's society? ;D

jclvsall · January 14, 2017, 03:03:45 PM

Jb we run the bullets on the 2" mill. The 2" mill has thicker wheels than the 1.5 " mills.

We found that with the.055 7°turbos from WM we set the top bullets on the blade then tighten. The bottom we put a piece of metal banding between the bullet and blade as a spacer. Then tighten and remove banding to leave a small space. This reduces heat and noise.

4x4American · January 14, 2017, 03:13:44 PM

Quote from: jclvsall on January 14, 2017, 03:03:45 PM
Jb we run the bullets on the 2" mill. The 2" mill has thicker wheels than the 1.5 " mills.

We found that with the.055 7°turbos from WM we set the top bullets on the blade then tighten. The bottom we put a piece of metal banding between the bullet and blade as a spacer. Then tighten and remove banding to leave a small space. This reduces heat and noise.

What kind of guides do you run on the 1.5" mill?

drobertson · January 14, 2017, 03:21:58 PM

Knotched with a small diameter carbide end mill would be my guess, those rings resemble touch off marks, seen a many of them, just not on band blades, we used magic markers or dykem but still left a witness mark usually, I say if it works, good,

jclvsall · January 14, 2017, 03:25:59 PM

On the 1.5 we run rollers

4x4American · January 14, 2017, 03:46:07 PM

What do you like better the rollers or the bullets or are they both good?

I thought he made the frost notches with the same thing he swadges the blades with but idk I'll have to watch him do it next time I'm there

gmmills · January 15, 2017, 11:06:45 PM

JB and jclvsall I have been using 1 1/2" 7 deg turbo blade as my general purpose blade since it was first released. It performs great in all types of hardwoods that I cut. This holds true until the logs get frozen. When the logs freeze up I have to go back to a 4 deg blade in order to get the cut quality that our customers demand. I don't just purchase another blade profile manufactured at 4 deg hook angle. I take a 7/39 deg turbo blade and re-profile to a 4/39 turbo. I use a specific 4/39 CBN wheel to make this happen. This wheel was developed to exclusively re-profile the 7 deg turbo to a 4 deg hook angle. Doing this allows me to purchase 1 blade profile for all my sawing conditions. This CBN wheel is available exclusively from our fellow forum member Cutting Edge. I have been doing this for the last 2 winters and the 4/39 profile performs better than the WM stock 4/32 blade profile. jclvsall this option may be for you considering the tooth profile limitations that WM has imposed on their 2" Silver Tip blade stock.

For all of you that think a 7 deg blade, especially with added extra set, will cut all frozen hardwoods productively, I can assure you it will not. If anyone doubts what I am stating, Come to OH and try to cut a frozen W. Oak with 7 deg blade. It will make some of nicest wavy W. Oak firewood you have ever seen.

jclvsall · January 15, 2017, 11:56:04 PM

Gmmills I had a long phone conversation with Richard (Cutting Edge) a couple years ago about this. He was working on getting Kasco to make them. Not sure how that ever turned out.

If/when we get a cbn grinder we will certainly try that.

You are right the turbos get crappy when the logs freeze. I found last week they were humping over the logs. Not rising in the cut and making thickNthins but literally cutting cupped boards. It was amazing. The blade was literally trying to follow the rings. The weirdest part is it would do it in one log then cut perfect in the next then crappy then perfect. I guess the logs in the sun were thawing but the ones under the pile were not.

4x4 we like both guides. We hated the bullets until we went to the .055 7° turbos and dropped the bottom ones out of play. Now they work great!

But to be honest the 1.5" mill with rollers and .055 7° turbos can just about keep up!

I have a roller designed in my head for the 2" machine. Now to just get to the shop and build it or get Floyd to do it.

Brian

Mt406 · January 16, 2017, 12:08:30 PM

Tried my first WM 4 just recently and liked it.
Had a guy bring some red Oak to saw. ( we don't get much of that in MT)
green and frozen.
I was happy with the blade striate and true I did have to scrap off saw dust.
Cut two orders of lodgepole pine cut just as well.
Didn't see much slow down in cut speed.
I lose more time in material handling than saw time.