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Questions about potential first job?

Started by JoeyLowe, January 19, 2002, 07:24:59 AM

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JoeyLowe

Hello again!

I have a couple more questions so please bear with me.  As mentioned in my previous posts, I'm new at this and as luck would have it, my marketing skills have landed me an opportunity that I'm a little unsure about.  I was contacted by a fellow who wanted me to saw a "couple of logs" for him.  I agreed to meet with him to discuss fees, etc. so off I go to his farm.  Imagine my surprize when I get there only to learn that "couple of logs" translates into around 300 uncut twenty year old pine trees.  

Turns out that this person inherited 100 acres of a tree farm from his father.  Unfortunately, he was left no money.  He told me that he had several loggers bid on the job and most offered him $8/ton for pulp wood and $26/ton for chip and saw.  All of these trees are straight, around 50' tall and a minimum of 12-15" diameter, with most up around 20" diameter.

I told him that I'm not a logger and have no interest in cutting down trees, but I may be interested in milling the lumber for him if we could work out the details.  He wants to maximize his profits since this is his inheritance.  Before contacting me, he went direct to several large commercial mills to see if they would buy the logs direct from him if he were to do his own logging.  He told me that all of the commerical mills told him they could not buy the logs directly from a landowner unless the landowner was a certified logger.

So here goes with my questions:

What laws affect a landowner's right to sell his lumber? (Texas)

Is it feasible for a small, beginning, inexperienced, part-time sawyer to even consider a job of this size given that I have adequate resources and bearing in mind that this whole project was began with the thoughts of keeping my father-in-law and sons busy?

If I were to undertake this job, and assuming I kiln-dried the lumber, where would I go to find a grader/broker/buyer of the lumber?

I'm sure that I have plenty of more questions, I'm still trying to formulate them in my little bean head right now and will post more as I think of them.
--
Joey Lowe

"Working towards perfection has to be a part of anything one does.  You've got to put yourself into it." ... Sam Maloof (chairmaker)

Texas Ranger

Tom sent me this for a reply.  I am Don Staples, Livingston, Texas, a Consulting Forester.  I'll try to answer step by step.

There are several laws in Texas that affect LOGGERS, but none as such that affect land owners.  The mills, to reduce liability and arguments over grade, size and payment, will generally not buy from a non-logger.  The prices offered are low, logs should be around $320 a thousand, or $40 per ton.  Pulp is about right, I suspect that the loggers that offered were looking at a straight pulp/chip and saw purchase, then merchandize the logs when they got them on the ground, and making a far better profit than they are willing to admit.  Chip and Saw is going for around $65 a ton at the mill, so the loggers are making $34 a ton, or more than the land owner.  Normally on a sale the profit for the logger is around $25 a ton.

The owner needs a consulting forester to sell his timber for him.  This amount, as described by you, would be worth around $11,000.00 when properly marketed by and to the land owner.  Forester will take around $1000 for the job, and the owner still has a better profit.

If you like hard work, and have the equipment, you can do the job.  You can hire a logger to bring the logs to your mill site.  expect some 450 logs on your deck, and depending on your mill, a long sawing job for a small mill.

You will not find a buyer for your lumber, kiln dried or not, from the commercial industry.  You'll be able to sell to the local consumer, but at a lower price than the lumber yard price.  Advertize in the news paper, and see what happens when you have a product to sell.

I am happy to talk to you, give me a call and I will chat on the phone for free (See, Tom, Consultants don't always go on the tab) and help you where I can.  If your close to me, I'll visit the site with you, talk to the land owner, work for you or the land owner, for a fee.  If cloes enough, first visit is free.

Staples Forestry, 936-327-4506
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

JoeyLowe

Hi Don:

Thanks for your prompt response!  When is a good time to call?

--
Joey Lowe

"Working towards perfection has to be a part of anything one does.  You've got to put yourself into it." ... Sam Maloof (chairmaker)

Texas Ranger

Joey and I spent about 30 minutes on the phone, I suppose I was a wet blanket in a lot of ways, but we'll let him say if I helped or hurt.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

JoeyLowe

I would have to say that Don was definitely a help! Our conversation just proved what I already knew; this job is too big and a little too complicated for a beginner such as I.

The most confusing part to me was why I would be unable to sell the lumber directly to a commercial buyer.  I knew that the wood had to be graded, but I thought you could hire an independent grader for that.  Little did I know that the commercial mills have their own graders.  As far the landowner, I need to find him a reputable logger that will give him a fair price for his lumber.

Thanks again.
--
Joey Lowe

"Working towards perfection has to be a part of anything one does.  You've got to put yourself into it." ... Sam Maloof (chairmaker)

JoeyLowe

 8) Okay, I think I may have come up with a possible solution where we all win.  I recommended to the landowner that he obtain the services of a certified forester. (possibly one recommended by me  ;D)  Then hire me to mill a portion of the logs that he has felled to supply him with the lumber for him to use to replace his property fence since he was going to use a portion of the proceeds from the sell of the timber to buy a fence anyway.  The only problem is that this fella is cash poor so I would have to take my fees out of the milled lumber.  I could use some of the lumber around the house, etc. and could maybe sell some of it to friends,etc.  Any thoughts?
--
Joey Lowe

"Working towards perfection has to be a part of anything one does.  You've got to put yourself into it." ... Sam Maloof (chairmaker)

Tom

That's the way to think......you're on the right track....get your money from the sawing service.  If he was going to buy fence with the money then he could pay you with the money from the sale also and the boards you cut for your own use could be part of the saw fee, the consulting fee, the organization fee, or a cut-on-shares for part of the wood so he can build a barn and you will have some for your house.  I wouldn't get envolved without getting some cash somewhere though beause you need that to keep the sawmill up.

Bud Man

Beginning to think you was a little timid--looks like  the gears came together and are in forward now. Looks like the forester is going to get on the payroll--you going to get some greenbacks and a yard full of lumber. JUMP IN THERE WITH BOTH FEET AND GET WET !!!!!  No room for timidity here.
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

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