Help with fire extinguisher

[doctorb]

Hey- I have an outdoor boiler ( please don't throw me in that Alternative briar patch for mentioning it!) and would like to get a fire extinguisher for my shed, in case something stupid happens.  Is there a type of fire extinguisher that can put up with sub-freezing temps?  Just seems like the sensible thing to do and I can't find out much info on the sites selling fire extinguishers.  We've got to have a bunch of firemen, EMT's, smart people, and saftey nuts on the FF to help me out here.  Thanks in advance...Doctorb

[Tom]

My choice would be a dry chemical ABC extinguisher.  It will put out a fire that is burning any fuel.  You won't have to worry about electrical or petroleum, just shoot it at the base of the fire and smother it.  'course electrical can re-ignite, so you would have to eliminate the heat by tripping a breaker.  At least you wouldn't electrocute yourself.

[DonT]

I agree with Tom,every once in awhile take your dry chemical extinguishers and turn them upside down and give them a rap on the bottom to keep the powder loose.

[Warbird]

Any dry chemical type of extinguisher should operate fine in freezing temp, doc.

*edit* Of course, I am not a professional firefighter.

[submarinesailor]

Well....... I'm going to go in the other direction recommend a CO2.  My reasons are because I have had to cleanup behind dry chemical SEVERAL times.  And it is not fun.  It gets into everything!!!!!!!!!!

If you are worried about using one when it's cold, read this:  "Carbon dioxide has no liquid state at pressures below 5.1 standard atmospheres (520 kPa). At 1 atmosphere (near mean sea level pressure), the gas deposits directly to a solid at temperatures below −78 °C (−108 °F; 195.1 K) and the solid sublimes directly to a gas above −78 °C. In its solid state, carbon dioxide is commonly called dry ice."

[Chris Burchfield]

I will support the ABC Dry Chemical.  You can read on the box or on the back of the extinguisher and get a minimum size of a 2A10BC.  Anything less in size will give you a false sense of security.  Type "A" fire are fuels that will produce a glowing ash.  Type "B" fires are flammable and combustible fuels.  These are divided by their flash point, producing sufficient vapors for ignition.  Type "C" fires are energized electrical equipment.  Should you have to use the extinguisher, have it recharged by a fire extinguisher company.  Don't just put it back on the hanger and expect to use it again because it is not empty.  The fine powder used will coat the "O" rings on the stem and allow the pressure inside to escape.  Not recharged and you need to use it, it won't work.  As Fire Marshal for 19 years, the 2A10BC is what I required of all commercial occupancies in my jurisdiction based on the National Fire Protection Standards found in NFPA 10, Portable Fire Extinguishers.

The dry chemical agent used will get all over everything.  It will rust a brand new wrench overnight if the powder is allowed to stay on it.  A good shopvac and a damp rag will suffice for clean up.  Depending on whats in your shop, you may be able to wash down part of it with a water hose.  Hope this helps Doc.

[ksu_chainsaw]

Another vote for the dry powder extinguisher.  In every military vehicle, there is a fire extinguisher next to the drivers seat.  They are left there year-round, and replaced every 2-3 years, or after someone gets in and accidentally triggers it  ;D  The powder can settle down and make it inop, but if you occasionally shake it or turn it upside down and rap on it with a chunk of wood, they will stay good for quite a while. 
A CO2 extinguisher would be an option, but for the amount of product, the dry powder extinguisher will be smaller and lighter.

[doctorb]

Thanks everyone.  My "shed" is a metal roofed pole barn extension that houses my outdoor furnace.  I have located it there so I can fill it somewhat protected for the weather.  The only thing flamable in there is my stacked wood.  I am not worried about electrical fires in this location, and there are no fuels or orther flamables, besides the wood, near the place.  It's open on 2 sides with open windows on the other sides, so it is basically outdoors.  I am not worried about the "mess" associated with the dry chemical extinguisher; my biggest concern was the effect temperature would have on its performance.  Sounds like it will work fine outdoors.  Thanks again for all suggestions.  Doctorb

[H60 Hawk Pilot]

I just bought (1) larger (7 lb.) and (2) smaller ABC type fire extinguishers for my home, they are (ABC) good for all types of fires.  I bought (2) extra smoke warning detectors and (4) flash lights, fresh battery's for the (4) existing fire detectors in my home.

The new flash lights are emer. use only (do not touch) and on a hook in everyone's room. I check everything with battery's on the 15th of every month.  The larger fire ext. is placed in the middle of the house, on it's hook and ready to use (no hunting for it) with a new flashlight next to it. The other smaller extinguisher is in the kitchen and the 2nd one outside the door where the new stove is installed.

I installed the wood stove on the outside deck and enclosed this area and piped hot air from this area to the main part of the house to the hot air blower system.  I tested all the fire detectors and breifed everyone on what to do in case of fire; how to exit the house through the windows in their room, Etc. .  I set our 100 foot water hose reel outside the house... next to the porch and the water is turned on & ready too go.  I live in FL and can have the water set up like this all year around (other than the last 2 weeks, it was freezing here).

Forgot to buy some sand in small bucket's or ( ?? ) to deal with a flu fire. Also, the on-going reminder to brush and check the flu pipe for creosote build up (every month or so).  I have seen one  Flu Fire  and it was  WILD !  The flu pipe turned white hot and real scary, was like a jet engine exhaust & huff'n & puff'n !  The first part of my flue pipe is double wall stainless that is inside the house.  Outside the house roof (metal roof), I installed Std. 24 gauge stove pipe.  I had extra stove pipe left over and double skinned the pipe above the roof.  I wrapped a 2nd stove pipe around the 1st pipe & banded it in place with stainless clamps. I did this to strength the 1st wall of pipe and help contain the fire in the event of a flu fire. Flu fires can can cause a complete melt down of single wall stove pipe... if they are severe enough.    

 Closing note -- I  added extra information and it may be of use to you & other readers. I read that your heating system is outside the house and your fire risk is lower.  We had our barn burn down in 1953 and it wiped us out.  It took my father and mother 15 years  of very hard work to rebuild everything and a lot more to the story.

We never (most people) think that we will have fire and don't prepare enough for them.  Once you have a fire and lose everything or see the result's of fire to other's... it will (fire) change your view point !  Getting your  Fire Out and/ or Contained is Critical and Needs to Happen Now ! ! !  You will find that.. if you are Not Prepared and Ready to Go.. It's Too Late. Forgot to mention --  elderly home's and pet's in the home; evacuating the home and where to meet (agreed spot) outside the home to count noses to ensure No Ones Inside !  Also, when the family member(s) goes back inside to fight the fire or look for another family member... they (usually) perish too, they're over welmed by smoke or trapped in the fire !

Take care,

Avery

[Reddog]

CO2 is much easier to work with, plus it has a cooling effect on hot spots.

[Captain]

CO2 extinguishers do NOT have the "firing distance" of an ABC dry chemical.  Although they will put out class A combustibles, they are usually rated for class B and C fires.  You have to be close to be effective, AND they are not as effective in the wind.

My vote is for an ABC dry chemical.  10# minimum.

Captain

[PineNut]

I have a 3A40BC extinguisher in the kitchen area. I also have a 100 ft garden hose on a hose hanger in the bedroom area. This hose is connected to a water supply and ready to turn on if needed. Water will be the most effective agent for a Class A fire.

[Jasperfield]

Look at some of the Halon extinguishers. They are used extensively in the aviation industry because they are not corrosive and will quickly extinguish any kind of fire.

Killing the fire (usually) is the easy part. It's the clean-up and recovery operations that bring the most frustration. Halon extinguishers will not damage metals, etc.

They cost more than generic ABC extinguishers, but don't damage the metals.

Look for them on trade-a-plane.com, etc., and other aviation sites.

[doctorb]

I've been on the FF for over a year now, and I am still amazed at the exchange of information that occurs here.  I am glad that not all agree.  Makes the choosing more educational.  Dcotorb

[Raider Bill]

I've been on the FF for over a year now, and I am still amazed at the exchange of information that occurs here.  I am glad that not all agree.  Makes the choosing more educational.  Dcotorb

Wait till you need help with a surgery. we are here to help. ;D ;D

[Gary_C]

One thing that was briefly mentioned here is critically important but widely ignored.

If you have a dry chemical extinguisher you MUST turn it upside down, rap it with a piece of wood and shake the dickens out of it at least once a year. If you don't shake it regularly, the powder will settle in the bottom of the canister and get hard and useless for when you need it.

Its a good time to check all your extinguishers and any you find that you cannot shake the powder loose should be replaced.

And Bill, I don't think they will let you into the OR with a chainsaw. 

[doctorb]

When I need surgery, you'll be the second to know!  I can't wait for my wife to catch me spanking some fire extinguisher a year from now!  I hope there will be enough time for some 'splainin". 

I hate to admit it to you guys, but, because of this thread, I checked the two extinguishers I have in my house tonight....both useless.  So instead of buying one new extinguisher, I will be asking for the multiple purchase discount!  So....you may have saved a life tonight.  You never know!

Doctorb

[Brucer]

And Bill, I don't think they will let you into the OR with a chainsaw. 

Long after we all left home, my brother (heavy duty mechanic) and the former next door neighbour (orthopedic surgeon) ended up getting into a conversation about mechanical repairs. It seems the doctor often had to deal with bones and joints that had been previously reinforced with stainless plates. Sometimes he just couldn't figure out how they'd been installed and couldn't remove them without doing serious damage to the bones. Next thing you know my brother was describing various tools that would make life easier for the doctor, and the doc was asking where he could buy them and trying to figure out if they could be sterilized. ;D ;D

'Twas a most interesting conversation, but not for the faint of heart.

[Raider Bill]

Hot lights and cold steel  :D ;D 8) :P

[Patty]

This has been a very informative thread indeed! Doc's mention about his extinguishers prompted us to check ours. Many of them are more than 15 years old! Needless to say, we will be replacing all of them.

Thanks guys for this very important information. Who knows how many lives you have saved by speaking up. I will be telling my sons and my brothers and sisters to check their extinguishers as well.

[stumpy]

I used to be in the fire protection business, so I'll throw my 2 cents worth.  CO2 is not rated for class A fires which are wood, paper, etc. WHile they may extinguish a small fire, I wouldn't rely on them.  ABC dry chemical is the most commonly used for your situation, but be aware of two things.  First, they create a horrendous mess to clean up.  The powder is very very fine and it gets everywhere.  The other thing is, the chemical is corrosive.  Not like acid, but if you don't clean it off, it will eventually damage any nice surface.  The comments about bouncing dry chems on the ground only apply to certain Ansul brand extinguishers.  They have an external nitrogen canister that you actuate to charge the chemical when you need it.  Until then the chemical just sits in the ext and settles.  All other extinguishers are pre-charged and the powder doesn't settle.
Around my mill and shop, I keep a couple of pressurized water extinguishers.  They add an anti-freeze in them to avoid freezing. 

Bottom line, if you don't want to think about it and you're prepared for the clean-up, use an ABC rated dry chemical.  Choose one that can be re-charged and has a gauge on the handle.  that way you are always sure it's ready and you don't have to thump it on the ground.

[Reddog]

This is one that can settle over time.

https://www.ansul.com/en/Products/hand_portable/redline_hportable.asp

[doctorb]

Well, that settles it.  It's ABC dry chemical in the shed, 'cause there are certainly no "nice surfaces" there!  I could hose the entire thing out if I had too.  Probably would not be good for the outdoor furnace, but if I'm putting out a fire there, I want the fire out and I will deal with a damaged furnace later.

Brucer - Regarding hardware removal....there is no question that we now have a huge array of tinker toys and gadjets to take metal out of people.  It can be difficult and about once a year I am sent a patient that has had an attempt at implant removal by another surgeon who was unable to remove it.  I joke that I did a fellowship (one year of extra training) in hardware removal and take it as a matter of pride that I can get most everything out without destoying the bone or other important stuff.  I tell the patients....orthopaedics is just carpentry with arteries and nerves!

[Raider Bill]

 smiley_chop

[Chris Burchfield]

Having inspected and charged dry chemical extinguishers myself, an extinguisher mounted on it's bracket or sitting on a shelf, from building vibration from an air-conditioner on the roof, slamming of a door a truck or heavy equipment passing by or operating outside, the dry chemical will settle and cake after about a year.  Once a year dry chemical extinguishers should be inverted and knocked with a rubber mallet several times.  You will probably feel the powder shifting.  Once loosened up, tilt the extinguisher so powder shifts back and forth.  The powder is so fine it will flow like a fluid and you will feel the shift from end to end in the extinguisher.  As long as the pressure indicator is in the green, the nozzle has not been clogged by a mud dauber and the hose is not dry rotted, the extinguisher should be fine till next year.