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Author Topic: My bandsaw build. Redoing the lift and lower  (Read 10255 times)

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Offline Kwill

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My bandsaw build. Redoing the lift and lower
« on: February 27, 2018, 11:14:54 AM »
I'm building a tire mill based on bill rakes plans (which I highly do not recommend using ). I'm to the point of installing the blade which I picked up yesterday. Wood mizer 10 degree .042 158 inch. I have it on the tires but don't see any way it will stay on the tires. I have read on here several post about having angle on the tires. It seems just hand rolling it around with having angle just makes the blade want to roll off. I'm using 5.30 12 Tires d ply Trailer tires. The tires have a decent crown on them. Any one that has dealt with a tire mill have a suggestions for keeping the blade on and centered? I will add some pics eventually.
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Offline tacks Y

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2018, 11:32:23 AM »
Do you have enough tension on the blade? My steel wheeled mill will not keep a blade on with out it.

Offline Kwill

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2018, 11:34:40 AM »
Yes. I have it pretty tight. I'm wondering on the air pressure of the tires. These are rated at 105 psi. I don't have that much in them and wonder if they need that much?
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Offline Kwill

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2018, 11:36:18 AM »
I've got 60 psi in them
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Online Crusarius

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2018, 11:36:41 AM »
I agree with tacks. you may have alot of screwing around to get them to stay on I am using bandwheels with belts on my build and it took quite a bit of aligning to get mine to stay on.

Also be sure your teeth do not touch the tire. It will flatten the set on one side of the blade causing you to cut circles.
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Offline Kwill

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2018, 11:41:53 AM »


Also be sure your teeth do not touch the tire. It will flatten the set on one side of the blade causing you to cut circles.
The teeth would have to touch the tires on a tire mill no way to run it All the way out on the edge like a pulley mill
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Offline Kwill

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2018, 11:49:25 AM »
 

 

 
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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2018, 11:59:09 AM »
The crown in the tires should be enough to keep them from touching. but if the tires get worn to far the set will be removed from the one side of the teeth.
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Offline jason.weir

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2018, 12:29:25 PM »
First off don't worry about the teeth touching on a rubber tire mill - no way to avoid it.  Between the crown and soft rubber, I've never had the set affected, maybe it's tire dependent??  Too much tension will however eat away at the rubber.

Bill Turner who manufactures a great rubber tired machine recommends 45psi and 1/2" to 1" deflection with 60-70lbs of pull down pressure in his 12" trailer tire mills.  I'd start there.

It's hard to see in your picture but is the non drive wheel able to pivot about it's vertical axis?

I assume it does, but I'll explain anyway, all band saws have an adjustment where the non drive wheel can pivot and this is what adjusts your blade tracking.  What I've always done is adjust it by rolling the wheels by hand until the blade will run consistently in one spot.

Then I run the mill at full speed and adjust it till the blade almost touches the rear guide bearings.  As close as I can get without it actually moving the bearing.  This ensures that when not in the cut there is no pressure on the bearing but as soon as you enter the wood the bearing will support the blade without allowing it to move rearward.

Of course this all assumes that your 2 wheels are not offset much, they need to be in the same planes in all three axes.  I'd think if it's off much you'd have lots of trouble getting the blade to stay on.

Offline Georgia088

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2018, 12:33:00 PM »
I had a hard time with this too.  I never really mastered it, but I did get better at it.  If you can take a straight edge and go all the way across your tires; if you can get the straight edge to touch each tire in two points (four places total). This is a good starting point.  Then you must be able to adjust the "toe" to get it to track correctly.  Make sure you are doing this once it is tensioned up.  What I found was that I could get them straight, but when I tensioned the blade My axle and or mill would flex.  This would throw everything off.  Also, you need to make sure both tires are plum. Good luck.

Offline Kwill

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2018, 12:51:25 PM »
I had a hard time with this too.  I never really mastered it, but I did get better at it.  If you can take a straight edge and go all the way across your tires; if you can get the straight edge to touch each tire in two points (four places total). This is a good starting point.  Then you must be able to adjust the "toe" to get it to track correctly.  Make sure you are doing this once it is tensioned up.  What I found was that I could get them straight, but when I tensioned the blade My axle and or mill would flex.  This would throw everything off.  Also, you need to make sure both tires are plum. Good luck.
How can you run angle and still have a straight edge touch in 4 places?
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Offline Kwill

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2018, 12:54:02 PM »


It's hard to see in your picture but is the non drive wheel able to pivot about it's vertical axis?


The idler wheel has adjustment the drive wheel I have to shim
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Offline Kwill

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2018, 12:54:59 PM »
The blade is wanting to come off the back
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Offline Georgia088

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2018, 01:01:12 PM »
I had a hard time with this too.  I never really mastered it, but I did get better at it.  If you can take a straight edge and go all the way across your tires; if you can get the straight edge to touch each tire in two points (four places total). This is a good starting point.  Then you must be able to adjust the "toe" to get it to track correctly.  Make sure you are doing this once it is tensioned up.  What I found was that I could get them straight, but when I tensioned the blade My axle and or mill would flex.  This would throw everything off.  Also, you need to make sure both tires are plum. Good luck.
How can you run angle and still have a straight edge touch in 4 places?
If you can get the tires to touch in four places, that is a good place to start your "toe" in.  After I got mine to touch in all four places, I would then "toe" mine in slightly so the straight edge would touch on the outside edge of both tires and there would be a gap between the straight edge and the inside part of the tire. But until you get them lined up so the straight edge is touching in four points, you are kinda shooting in the dark with your alignment.  This is how I did it and it worked pretty well.  I'm no expert though.  Hope you get it figured out.

Offline jason.weir

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2018, 01:11:21 PM »
this is for a vertical delta type bandsaw but the idea is the same

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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2018, 01:16:51 PM »
Kwill,
Here is what worked for me.  I used donut spare tires because they have a very round profile and are designed to run at 60 to 70 psi (and they were free).  They are very hard with a pronounced crown.

First, I sighted down the face of the mill to make sure they were reasonably in line.  I put the blade on and tensioned it up to what I felt was pretty tight.  Then I spun the wheels by hand.  The blade immediately wanted to walk off the tires.  I have the ability to pivot both tires like a car steering.  I have a bolt that I tighten that pushes on the inside of the wheel mount.  The blade tension wants to pull the tires together (making a very slight V looking from the top).  The bolts can make it go the other way.

Working one wheel at a time, I adjusted the tire angle (camber?) until it tracked on the high point of the tire.   I cut a little and found I needed more tension (to flatten out the waves).  That in turn affected the tracking a little.  Re-adjusted and then set the blade guides to have 1/4" to 3/8" down pressure and the back flange just off the back of the blade.

I have the mill at home now, I'll go get some pictures if that will help.

EDIT:

Here is the idle side.  The bolt on the left is the pivot point, the bolt on the right has a little bit of a slot.
 
Looking from the bottom up, the little rusty 1/4" bolt with the locknut is the adjuster.  It takes maybe a 1/4 turn to make a big difference in the tracking.
 
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2018, 01:39:25 PM »
The only reason you need any toe in is because of the flex of the machine. If you could make a machine with no flex then you would not need toe in. Bands always seek the crown of the wheel. 
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Offline jason.weir

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2018, 03:16:37 PM »
The only reason you need any toe in is because of the flex of the machine. If you could make a machine with no flex then you would not need toe in. Bands always seek the crown of the wheel.
Come on?  Thats like saying wheel weights are only needed because tires are out of balance..  If you build a balanced tire there would be no need for wheel weights. ;)

I've got 5 factory made band saws here in the shop, 2 horizontal metal, a vertical metal, vertical wood & a vertical meat saw.  All of them were designed with toe adjustment and not just because of flex.

Anyone seen a band saw without blade tracking adjustment..

Back to the OPs problem - its clear you have one or more of the following problems

1.  Tire Pressure
2.  Blade Tension
3.  Wheel Alignment
4.  Blade Tracking Adjustment

Keep at it - you will get it.

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2018, 05:19:40 PM »
The reason for that is that it would be next to impossible and not cost effective to build a mill that's perfect.  
But if you did and if you built it with no flex and it would not wear to need adjustment then you would not need any toe in adjustment. Wheel weights would not be needed if the tires would not wear to need them and if they was made right the first time. But we don't live in a perfect world and things move, wear, flex and so on. This is why almost everything made has some kind of adjustment. Just my $0.02
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Offline Kwill

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Re: My bandsaw build.
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2018, 05:53:13 PM »
I had a hard time with this too.  I never really mastered it, but I did get better at it.  If you can take a straight edge and go all the way across your tires; if you can get the straight edge to touch each tire in two points (four places total). This is a good starting point.  Then you must be able to adjust the "toe" to get it to track correctly.  Make sure you are doing this once it is tensioned up.  What I found was that I could get them straight, but when I tensioned the blade My axle and or mill would flex.  This would throw everything off.  Also, you need to make sure both tires are plum. Good luck.
How can you run angle and still have a straight edge touch in 4 places?
If you can get the tires to touch in four places, that is a good place to start your "toe" in.  After I got mine to touch in all four places, I would then "toe" mine in slightly so the straight edge would touch on the outside edge of both tires and there would be a gap between the straight edge and the inside part of the tire. But until you get them lined up so the straight edge is touching in four points, you are kinda shooting in the dark with your alignment.  This is how I did it and it worked pretty well.  I'm no expert though.  Hope you get it figured out.
Ok I'm working on getting them to touch in four places. They did in 3
Built my own hydraulic splitter
Built my own outdoor wood stove
Built my own log arch
In the process of building my sawmill


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