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Author Topic: Sharpening Advice  (Read 3161 times)

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Offline Simon3380

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Sharpening Advice
« on: April 11, 2018, 12:20:09 AM »
So last fall I purchased a WM BMS 250 and Cooks dual tooth setter. I'm think I'm pretty comfortable with the sharpening part but I just flat out struggle with the setting. It seems like half the time the blades end up cutting a little bit rough like a tooth or two has too much set. I try to straighten them when I see them but it just seems to take forever to get the set just right. I think some of my problem might be trying to revive bands that have hit nails but not sure. It's on my self improvement list to keep track of those blades better. The first question I have is what range do you guys consider acceptable to get a smooth cut, like +/- .001"?

I've read about people and even woodmizer using rollers to flatten the blade/set before reshaping, but I don't see any thing that can be purchased. Seems like Cooks offered something a few years back but don't offer it anymore. Do most people that sharpen their own blades not have issues with setting or do they just make their own rollers?

Sure would be nice to get to the bottom of this. I know now why so many just send there blades out but I'm just the type of person that can't bring myself to paying someone else to do what I can do (even if sometimes it cost me a bunch more at least in the short term. I guess that's why I ended up with a sawmill, and a backhoe, and a skidsteer,  and a ... 😁).
Garbage in, garbage out

Online ljohnsaw

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2018, 01:05:11 AM »
Do most people that sharpen their own blades not have issues with setting or do they just make their own rollers?
 
I think I saw a few years back that someone made a roller to take most of the set out with a few ball/roller bearings - a pretty simple set up.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 54' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Skipper11A

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2018, 01:10:51 AM »
I resharpen my own blades but I don't worry about the set unless I can see one tooth is way out of alignment.  I correct these with a handheld saw kerf bender tool ( not sure of the name).  I wonder if you're not overthinking this thing.  I cut beautiful wood and actually have people comment on how smooth the cut is, but it's not perfect. 

Offline Chuck White

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2018, 06:43:12 AM »
I made this "unsetter" or set remover a couple of years ago!  I made it to run my blades through to even the set up before setting them!





I just slide the blade down in between the two rollers and pull it through backwards to eliminate damaging the points!

Doing so really speeds up the setting process!  Now setting "both sides" usually takes less than 10 minutes!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain the Wood-Mizer.
I LOVE MY SAWMILL

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2018, 07:38:34 AM »
Chuck, you ever notice less tooth life out of your blades? Like teeth breaking off from unsetting and setting?

I am guessing the blades wear out before teeth begin to fail?
I knew what I thought I meant.

Offline slider

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2018, 07:45:21 AM »
Simon i down set with my cooks setter. Just do one side at a time and by backing the other anvil out. It  takes a minute but it works.
al glenn

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2018, 09:38:02 AM »
I have the same combination, BMS 250 and Cooks dual tooth. Unlike many, I sharpen then set because I like to set and measure off fully profiled edges not the rounded edges on a dull band.  

I also do not like the anvil strategy of the Cooks setter so I reground the anvils to a full bevel and now push and set off the top of the tooth which is where Iím measuring with the dial indicators and is the part of the tooth that leaves the scratches on the board.

Also, Iíve adjusted the anvils so that I get 25 thou set when the gullet of the band is exactly flush with the top of the setter clamps. So my procedure for loading a new band is lay it in the setter, spin the burr off on the inside of the band, put the band in the setter clamps and adjust the gullet to be flush. Then maybe a quarter turn raise or lower to tweak and get to my set value, then start cranking. I donít adjust the tooth set by moving or individually playing with the anvils because if the BMS did itís job all the profiles are very accurate from tooth to tooth and band to band. Once I get the anvils ďbalancedĒ and set correctly, I lock them down with a wrench and move them once in a blue moon, or less.  If the left and right values donít match very closely it means there is probably something wrong with the tooth tip, it got knicked or not fully profiled for some reason.

All three of these steps in combination result is a very quick setting cycle, about 2.5 minutes, and very smooth cut, better than a new band and Resharp.

HobbyHardwoodAlabama.com

Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2018, 10:28:20 AM »
mine is the Timbering sharpener, drag type
 
Multitek 1610EZ, TimberKing 2000 & Talon Sharpener,
"let the machines do the work"

Offline Chuck White

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2018, 02:55:08 PM »
Chuck, you ever notice less tooth life out of your blades? Like teeth breaking off from unsetting and setting?

I am guessing the blades wear out before teeth begin to fail?
No, I haven't, and I think this is my 3rd year using this unsetter!
I don't sharpen "heavy", just so long as the point is there, is all I really care about!
I do get down into the gullet when I can, sometimes that might take the second or third sharpening, and sometimes the profile just doesn't go my way! 
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain the Wood-Mizer.
I LOVE MY SAWMILL

Offline JB Griffin

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2018, 09:32:13 PM »
To the op, we have one of those dual tooth smashers at work and I loathe that thing. .006" consistency is as good as it gets with that thing. I personally have seen it "set" blades to the tune of .010" variance on the same side. And that my friend is why I bought a Suffolk.

P.S. 4x4american posted a video showing why they can't be accurate. 
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota, 160 Prentice, Frick 2 saw gang edger, Wright W-37 ABG, Suffolk dual tooth setter, Cat claw single tooth setter,'96 F-250 7.3 PSD 4x4, CS-590 Echo, MF 20c, M681 Memo.

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Offline Simon3380

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2018, 09:36:16 PM »
I made this "unsetter" or set remover a couple of years ago!  I made it to run my blades through to even the set up before setting them!

Is the gap adjustable? Or do you always have say .045 blades so it doesn't have to be?
Garbage in, garbage out

Online tawilson

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2018, 09:54:13 PM »
Yellowhammer, how do you spin the burr off? My Woodmizer manual says to rub a piece of hardwood around the inside of the blade, but always looking for better ways.
Tom
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BMS250 and BMT250 sharpener/setter

Offline gmmills

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2018, 10:36:56 PM »
Simon3380, You will never be able to hold tight set tolerances with a Cook's dual tooth setter. Just check out 4x4's video. If you want to hold tighter set tolerances and still have the speed of a dual tooth setter you need to look at buying a WM BMT 250 or a Suffolk. Accuracy is fully dependent clamping the deflection out of the blade body prior to bending the teeth. Holding set tolerances of +/ - .001 is what you are after, then a single tooth setter is the only true way to do so.
Custom sawing full-time since 2000. 
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Online YellowHammer

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2018, 10:37:08 PM »
I have a small rectangular piece of carbide stock, about 3/8" x 3/8" x 2 inch long and lightly hold the sharp edge against the inside of the band and hold it stationary while spinning the band in the setter.  The band isn't in the clamps, but being held in the bearings in the arms.  You can feel the burr being shaved off, and only go around once.  There no need to do more because when you get to point you started you can feel the drag lessen significantly which means the burr is shaved off.
A piece of hardened tool steel will also work fine, or anything rectangular with a sharp edge corner that will shave the burr.  I've tried the wooden stick, didn't like it, if anything, it tends to push the burr down, not shave it off.  The setter needs a clean tooth tip to set and measure from.

When I say spin, I mean you can spin the band fast, three of four grab and pulls and it's done. You can also hear the sound change when you come all the way around. 

HobbyHardwoodAlabama.com

Offline Chuck White

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2018, 07:03:15 AM »
I made this "unsetter" or set remover a couple of years ago!  I made it to run my blades through to even the set up before setting them!

Is the gap adjustable? Or do you always have say .045 blades so it doesn't have to be?
The gap is adjustable, but not very much, it is set where it was when it was made!
I've set .042 and .045 blade with it regularly!  One time I had a guy bring in a couple of .035 blades and it still worked ok!  If I had to do a .055 blade, it would probably need to be opened up by undoing the bolts and retightening (the bolt holes are ever so slightly oversize).
I mostly do .045 blades, and when the blades are run through the unsetter, they will be between .018 & .020" set!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain the Wood-Mizer.
I LOVE MY SAWMILL

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2018, 09:11:45 AM »
My neighbor Tim and i pass the WM "unsetter" back and forth as needed.
YH I dont like the wood method either, so have gone to setting before sharpening.
I dont have the proper cam for the 7 turbos which I an changing over to so use resharp for these.
I am not smart enough to re profile a cam for the 7 turbos.
My sharpener is a 95 drag model.
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2018, 08:46:22 PM »
I set, then sharpen, and I don't worry about the burr, just pretend that it's not there! 

I've never had an issue with it since I started setting first, then sharpening!

~Chuck~
Retired USAF (1989), Retired School Bus Driver (2012), and now a Mobile Sawyer
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG2425 Kohler - Shingle & LapSider, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain the Wood-Mizer.
I LOVE MY SAWMILL

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2018, 12:32:01 AM »
The log will take care of the burr...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
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Offline highleadtimber16

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2018, 10:22:43 AM »
The guy who used to sharpen my blades, would leave a heavy burr on them. It caused a big rust issue on my Red Cedar boards. I sharpen my own blades now, and make sure the burr and any metal residue is cleaned off. 
2011 Wood-Mizer LT 40 hyd w/ 12' Extension, Patrick Model A Loader, 75 Hitachi, Stihl 461, 2X066, & ms 192

Cutting Old Growth Cedar from Queen Charlotte Islands.

Offline 4x4American

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Re: Sharpening Advice
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2018, 05:20:36 PM »
I hate setting..if you get the set within .003Ē youíll make some nice lumber.  I have the cooks dual and single tooth setters.  The single tooth setter is actually quicker if youíre trying to be real accurate because itís easier to tweak the blade.  I pretty much only use the dual tooth to downset teeth because its pretty good at that.
Boy, back in my day..


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