Anyone that did it wrong the first time, nows your chance

[TimberCreek]

To layout the mill lot correctly!
We recently purchased roughly 17 acres and planning the layout for the mill. Lots of white oak, black cherry and a few walnuts to get down first. We have about 2 acres that are pretty flat, somewhat oval shaped. see picture. We also have a Timberking 2000 with dragbacks, loaders, etc. so, looking at 8 wide x 31 long for the mill itself. 
We are planning to be mostly mobile but still have a mill shed and cut some at our place.
Planning a 60' entrance to the property with 30-40' wide drive coming into the cleared off +/- 2 acre area.
1. As far as the mill shed, we originally were thinking 40 wide by 50 long but realized that the 40' would probably be wasted as anything on the offload side of the mill will be in the way so, thinking 24 wide with 24' openings on both sides of the mill to off load opposite of loading arms using tractor or to be able to work from stack after dragback.

2.Does anyone agree on the best size for a drying shed? we were thinking either 12 or 24 wide x 40 or 50 long so as not to stack to deep and have to move a lot to get to inner stacks.

any thoughts/suggestions?
We are also planning an enclosed workshop - probably 24x24 or so - thinking about tagging it onto the closed end of  the mill shed.

Looking forward to all input.
 


  

[DDW_OR]

Welcome. please update your location.

starting with a blank slate is nice. do you get alot of rain/snow.
is the mill shed going to be a pull through or back in.
are you going to be Kiln drying, solar or electric.

where are you going to store the logs, and saw waste; sawdust, bark, scrap cuts.

a lot of good reading

Useful sawmill mods in Sawmills and Milling

Sawdust blower on a bandmill in Sawmills and Milling

what degree bandsaw blade in Sawmills and Milling

New Lumber Storage Shed in General Board

Observations of a New Sawyer in Sawmills and Milling

trees and bees, can it pay to plant cover crops in young forests? in Alternative methods and solutions

[YellowHammer]

How much room you need is based on how much you are going to process.  

I would say double everything you've got listed.  My shop is 24 x 48, way too small.  We just added another 48' length, still too small.  

Sawmill area both under cover and not, 48' x whatever, still too small. Sawmills need lots of room, preferably covered, and open sides are fine.    

Lumber drying, 24 wide x 32 deep, way too small.  Moving palletized stuff is a breeze with a forklift.  

Lumber kilns, I have three, the largest takes up and 80' by 30' pad, all gravel, with a kind of forklift dock for loading and unloading.  Any kiln should have a sizable isolation arc, depending on your insurance, away from anything else you care about burning down.  

Anyway, put in as big as you can, spread out as much as you can, and it won't be big enough.   :D

[moodnacreek]

The sawmill should be back in a corner and fed logs with a tractor. You want a clear flat yard to stack and sort lumber by hand. In other words you don't want the saw mill in the middle of the yard and in the way of the hard work.

[mike_belben]

Or the trucks that need to spin around.  Think hard about water runoff and keeping it away from anywhere an 18 wheeler goes.  Theyll squeeze water out of the ground, crush your septic, disappear your gravel.  Great drainage and geotextile fabric under the rock are a must to run heavy equipment year round over silty clay soils.

[DDW_OR]

Also the ground should not be FLAT. it should have a small slope for drainage.
if you are lucky, gravel

mine is a mix of clay/dirt and rock/gravel. gets a little muddy.

what state are you in??

[Don P]

For the millshed itself, if your snow and wind loads can handle it, consider cantilevered trusses from a load bearing wall behind the mill, no posts at all on the mill side.

[CX3]

If you even think a tree is too close to anything lay it down now

[scsmith42]

Great advice above.  I'll add a couple of thoughts.  First, what direction is the prevailing wind from?  Consider orientating your sawmill so that the prevailing wind takes the sawdust away from the operator and not towards them.

Same consideration regarding the location of your stickered lumber.  Best to orientate it so that the long sides of the stacks are perpendicular to the prevailing winds.

Also, think about the ease of waste disposal and an edger.  You want to be able to easily get load and get rid of sawdust, slab off cuts, as well as edging off cuts.

[TimberCreek]

Thanks for the replies. We are in Northeast Tennessee. Snow load won't be too bad, need to verify to codes. Already have drainage ideas but, glad you mentioned it.
Will move kin. 
Electric kiln, going to start small- around 1000bf.
The intent for the shed would allow back in or pull through 
More udeas please, startinf from scratch is a great time to try and get it right.
.

[mike_belben]

Are you familiar with wet clay in winter?  What are your plans for the primary lot, dirtwork wise?  

This was by far the absolute biggest shock for me upon moving here from northeast where water just drains through the ground.  Its taken me 2 years to really get road building with the stuff nailed down and consistent.  Summer is easy but when that triaxle backs in loaded during the 3rd day of rain its a different ball game.

And stuck changes everything about your plans.  Stuck may as well be a broken truck or none at all.  Every single thing in my life at that point before having a real driveway revolved around stuck.  There were many 3 to 5 day stretches where i couldnt leave the yard, just twiddled thumbs.  A foot of rock isnt cheap either. 


Lotta this the first winter.

[TimberCreek]

We have been in Georgia for 18 years so, somewhat familiar with wet clay but not to that level! The site is high above a creek. The Area is pretty rocky based on neighbor just having septic installed.. We know there will be a fair amount of Dirt work involved. Spoke to the excavator Friday, supposed to start clearing in June.

Someone mentioned volume we intend to process. Not planning a lot onsite but, ideas will probably change so, trying to be prepared. will add log , sawdust and slab area to the site plan. Slabs will stack and hopefully sell by the pickup load cheap to get rid of them. Or, burn pit. Sawdust -  what does everyone do with it? We are in a big horse area but dust from bandsaws is usually to fine for most folks.

Thanks for all the input. Going to read the links in that first response.

Keep it coming.

[mike_belben]

If youre gonna hire out the excavation i would want to make it very clear that you need to operate heavy equipment on this site rain or shine all year, and you wont accept a yard with 8 inch sink holes that just hold water and then continually grow until the yard is ruined.  Dont let them skimp and put in some residential 3inch tailgate spread on you.  Doing it right is expensive.  Hiring a cheap hack and then a pro later to fix what is wrong is a lot more expensive.


I will never ever ever do a heavy equipment site without geotextile again.  Its about $500 for a 15' x 300' roll.  But thats gonna keep like 3grand worth of rock from disappearing, and prevent you from fighting the chronic puddles and sinking trucks.  

Being from georgia you probably know all this but for anyone else fighting this issue...  Clay slakes 100% into a fluid, no matter how much you have.  Given enough water and stirring it will all just turn into porridge.  The faster water is shed the less it slakes.  Even the tinyest puddle is a problem with clay.  You drive over that, sink in, now you have a bigger puddle and it gets worse every time.  Ive got a new one every week in the spots without fabric.  And thats probably 6 inches thick of 6" rock then 2 inches of 3minus then fines over it, and good crown, plus a drainage pond to lower the water table.  So yeah, address puddles fast. The cure is not more rock.. That just hides the puddle and loses more rock into it  the cure is shoveling more pure clay into the puddle, churning it all up and working it like wet cement, then letting it fully harden.  You can only add lifts an inch or two at a time.  When the dip is finally filled, then gravel it over.  

Without fabric you cant really get a heavy equipment worthy road without putting down big, then medium, then fine with vibratory rolling or lots of rain on each layer.  With fabric, 5 inches of 3 minus will be firmer than a foot of rock on grade.  Its amazing stuff.  Ive had over 60 ten wheelers in here at 74-77k, maybe more on the wet days.  Areas without fabric roll under the tires like a waterbed.  Its disturbing.

Nother trick i learned, seal the top with sandy clay and hose it down to wash into all the voids.  Fills in all of it and locks your stone in tight.  Loose rolly gravels are so annoying to walk or especially kneel on.  Thats what happens when you only buy one size.  They never lock up, i see it at customers houses all the time.  More rock in the grass edge than the driveway.  I love 3minus.  


Forgot to mention the major basics.  

-never build on topsoil
-never let a runoff stream go over a road
-always buy a bigger, longer culvert than you think you need.  
-always cover your traprock with silt fence before you backfill.
-grow an extra arm and leg because thats how much this all costs.

[DDW_OR]

for pole barns. insulate the metal roof to prevent moisture from condensing on the underside.
also a vapor barrier on the dirt/rock floor.
my barn came with the barrier on the roof.
I did not put a barrier under the floor gravel and now am paying the price.

if i had to do it again i would put two to 3 layers of sheet plastic, then one layer of geotextile, then the gravel.

[paul case]

lots of good info on this thread.

Log lot management problems in Sawmills and Milling

PC

[SawyerTed]

The original drawing is not to scale but I would make sure the space between buildings is enough to load or unload a TT from both sides with whatever machine you will use.  I would do this even if you don't "plan" on loading or unloading there. 

[DanG]

Before you spend a lot of money on amending your soil, look up your county's soil map and find out exactly what type of soil you have. You may have all of the problems that Mike Belben has or you may not have any problem at all. The map may also change your mind about where on the property you want to put your complex. If you're really lucky, you will get one of those 12" rain events before it's too late to change your plan, so you can see for yourself what it is like. ;)

[nativewolf]

Before you spend a lot of money on amending your soil, look up your county's soil map and find out exactly what type of soil you have. You may have all of the problems that Mike Belben has or you may not have any problem at all. The map may also change your mind about where on the property you want to put your complex. If you're really lucky, you will get one of those 12" rain events before it's too late to change your plan, so you can see for yourself what it is like. ;)

This is good advice.  One solution that also helps cut costs is lime stabilization.  Especially if you have deep clay soils and want to have a good cheap base.  They require this on many road construction projects in GA, fyi.  Smart if the rest of the US did the same, saves a huge amount on cut/fill and rock.  

[mike_belben]

I have been getting curious about liming clay.  How is it done?  Surface spread then till in?

[Don P]

To follow up on DanG's comment, this is a link to USDA's web soil survey. Generally very good soil mapping;
https://websoilsurvey.sc.egov.usda.gov/App/HomePage.htm

[TimberCreek]

Before you spend a lot of money on amending your soil, look up your county's soil map and find out exactly what type of soil you have. You may have all of the problems that Mike Belben has or you may not have any problem at all. The map may also change your mind about where on the property you want to put your complex. If you're really lucky, you will get one of those 12" rain events before it's too late to change your plan, so you can see for yourself what it is like. ;)

Sounds like we may get a major rain event in the next few days - they are saying 5-8"