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Questions on Hickory trees

Started by SawBilly, January 10, 2003, 08:44:10 AM

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SawBilly

ok guys, real question.

What is the difference in a "Scaley bark" Hickory and regular Hickory?

Please forgive me on the speln on scaley :)

I know Pecan is in the Hickory family. I have several standing Scaley Bark Hickory's and am instered in using them for some hardwood floors. The local Lowe's store had some Hickory flooring 3/4" x 4" strips...looks like good stuff, was pretty too.

If you have never heard of Scaley, then to describe it I would say the bark looks to be in 2" by 8" strips that curl away from the tree, makes a mess to climb with a deer stand ;D

The trees I have are avg 18"-20" dbh and about 60' tall, I dont think there is a first limb, it pretty much just goes up then has a big crowning top.

I would appreciate any advice or even opinions on the different useablities of these magnificant trees 8)


OneWithWood

Sounds like you are describing a Shagbark Hickory.  I have never milled one so I can't answer your question.  I believe they are as hard as nails.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Bibbyman

We've milled a few "shag" or "scaly" bark hickory.  HARD, HARD, HARD.  Meanest stuff I've ran across.  Could see sparks fly from blade even when the log is fresh and clean. (I've noticed the same sparks when sawing with chain saw.)

Had some kiln dried and planed by big commercial outfit.  Came back looking like it had been through a grinder - chunks torn out and burn marks where it jammed up.  Don't know if their blades were dull or feed too fast or cut too deep but they sure messed it up.

The stuff we sawed had a lot of grown over knots and other defect.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Ron Wenrich

That sure sounds like shagbark.  I've sawn some shagbarks, but most of ours are pignut or mockernut hickory.

We sell some of our better hickory as veneer.  The others we cut for lumber and sell to wholesalers.  I don't have too much problem sawing the hickory on a big circle mill.  For me, it cuts about the same as red oak.

Your saw will dull quicker, but a lot of that is due to the dirt that is in the bark.  I know if the logs are wet, things go a lot better.

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Don P

I was just in the Wood Handbook on the properties chart so I looked it's density up while there.
Shagbark...64-.72
Shellbark...62-.69
Mockernut....64-.72 That's what I think I have, hard but pretty.
Pignut....66-.75

Some others by comparison-
Northern Red Oak....56-.63
Black Locust....66-.69
Honeylocust....60
Live Oak...80-.88---No wonder Tom says this stuff is tough!

It was explained to me that all pecans are hickorys but not all hickorys are pecans. In the cabinet shop it came in mixed hickory/ pecan. In the recent ice storm down here a few pecan groves got torn up. Hoping to get some salvage.

Horselogger got us hickory for the floor in the last house we did, beautiful stuff! They went with hickory cabinets too.

Bro. Noble

Sawbilly,

I have noticed a lot of difference in the difficulty of sawing our different hickories.  Dad knows most of the species of plants (and birds) that grow in our area.  I believe he told me that there are nine different kinds of hickories  on our place.  You are close enough to us that you probably have about the same species.  I think shagbark has the best nuts if that's any consolation.

Noble
milking and logging and sawing and milking

bull

 The only thing good about hickory is the nuts *(great food for the deer)* if it wasn't for that i would cut them all down for firewood..
oh ok thats two things good about hickory.. We'll keep on thinking maybe there is something else good about hickory, makes a pretty good beam too.. but sure is a pain in the butt to saw >:( >:( We only cut hickory in the spring,green and wet right off the stump and run alot of water on the blade
also go heavy on the soap in the lubemizer.

DanG

Makes a pert fair ax handle, too, and some DanG pretty cabinets.
But Hikry has it's finest hour under a dead pig!  ;D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Fla._Deadheader

Hey DanG. Why is it that most of yer postin pertains to food ?????? :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

woodmills1

One of my customers built some kitchen cabinets from a  hickory I cut, the wood is real pretty, but he had to give it extra time to acclimate due to movement.  I think it was either shellbark or pignut.  the log had loads of tension and I was still using woodmizer .042" and it didnt cut very straight.  have only cut one hickory since with .045" and it was much easier.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

mitch

SawBilly,
Shagbark (scaly bark) hickory is as you describe it. Click on this link for a view of  NC hickory.

http://shagbarkfarms.com/Forums/shagbark.JPG

It is the hardest (most dense) wood that grows in NC. Not as hard as osage orange that grows in the midwest. Pignut hickory (smooth bark) is the other common hickory in the Piedmont section of NC. I occasionly saw hickory with my circular mill, but usually I just split it for firewood. It was originally used for axe handles, making splints for hickory wooden baskets, and for wagon axles. I am so fond of the tree that I named my farm ShagBark Farms and the domain name for my personal web site

http://shagbarkfarms.com

Don P

I did notice dimensional change coefficients were about 2/3 as great for pecan as hickorys...don't know why but now I really want to try to get some pecan to see.

LeeB

PEcan is my favorite wood. To me, it has more color than hickory in the heartwood. Tough as a dickens to saw. The interlocking grain along with it's hardness makes the blade want to wander. An 0.45, sharp blade seems to work best for me. LeeB
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

DanG

Hey, DeadHead! When you get here on Winnsdy, and we go to lunch, you will be able to answer that question, yerself!  ;D
If you don't pipe down and play nice, I'll have to drag you out to the bait store, and poke a "FatBurger" down yer neck. You'll never be the same.
Remember, you might be a redneck, if your favorite restaurant sells fishbait. :D :D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

ARKANSAWYER

SawBilly,
  Shagbark Hickory is not much harder then mockernut.  But if you Qsaw shagbark it has rays like red oak.  I saw mine with lots of water and 0.055 blades for best feed rates and turn often for flat lumber.  I like mockernuts best and if you put them on the wood stove they pop open and are slightly roasted.  Bugs will get it if you let it lay around long.  Bring it up to the north side of the Buffalo River and I will saw it.
ARKANSAWYER
ARKANSAWYER

Fla._Deadheader

Hey DanG. If ya ever get down to the camp, I will treat ya at "Porky's". They got a 1 pounder Fatburger and the bun dissolves about 1/2 way through the meal. Messy, but, UUUUMMMMMMM!! ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Jeff

Heaven help us another southern delicacy. Does the fiber come from Hickory?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

DanG

There ain't no fiber in it. Not intentionally, anyway. :o
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Fla._Deadheader

Might could have "lead splinters". :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Texas Ranger

I don't know why, but you guys always talk about food, so I got to reply.  I grew up roaming in the Missouri and Arkansas Ozarks.  Fishing and Hunting, oh, and occaisionally running the gals and trying to trade guns.  But I digress.  Most meat we ate in the little places took a certain chewing ability to prevent chipping a tooth from the lead in the meat.  Never ask a mountain cafe owner "what the hell kind of meat is this, any way?".  Less you want to know the anser.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

SawBilly

ARKANSAWER, they are not to far from you to start with. They are on the property in Marshall. I just may bring one up and get  you to show me how to cut it right!

Don P

Noble's post got me wondering cause I remembered more names mentioned by the old timers. Found a few more varieties listed in an AFPA table. Here's what they had.
Bitternut, Mockernut, Nutmeg, Pecan, Pignut, Shagbark, Shellbark, Water.
You all know of any others?

Bro. Noble

DonP,

Black Hickory----C.texana
Red Hickory-------C.ovalis
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Curtis Koth

The hickories are virtually indistinguishable once turned into boards. The pecan is more uniform in color, with less deep shades of heartwood, a more even toned board. Softer than hickories, less dimensional instability.Pecan is often mixed with hickory in wholesale loads and hickory veneer and plywood. Hickory and pecan have become more popular in recent years because of the kitchen cabinets and some furniture made of them.
Curt

Don P

The Pecans I'm assuming are faster grown. The density numbers are lower .56-.66... And its more stable, alot more. Its going back into my old question again :-/. Is there anything else going on there that I'm not seeing, they are I guess different species.

I worked for a lady one time that said life keeps hitting you with the same lesson till you learn it :D.

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