Waterstones, care and use?

[Dave Shepard]

I just purchased my first Japanese waterstone today. Not sure I'm using it right, but it put a mirror finish on a couple of chisels in only a few strokes. Previously I would sharpen up to the extra fine DMT diamond stones, but even that would leave toolmarks. The 8000 waterstone takes them out ASAP. I've been told that I need to prep the 8000 with a coarser stone? Possibly a Nagura? I just soaked the stone in water and started honing, seemed to work.  If anyone has any pointers, I'd appreciate them. I almost bought a 6" buffer today, but there where no felt wheels available, nor the proper abrasives. The waterstone is about 3"x8", so it should handle my final honing needs for a while.


Dave

[WDH]

I believe that you use a coarse stone to keep them flat.  That is called dressing the stone.  That is from what I have read, not experienced firsthand .

[low_48]

The nagura stone is pretty close to chalk. It is not abrasive, it is used as a "lubricant" on the 8000 grit. If the stone is flat and the steel is flat it can drag pretty hard during the honing. The nagura will reduce this drag.
The 8000 grit is so dense that you don't have to soak it before sharpening. Just keep some water on the surface. They probably told you to dress it just to make sure that it is flat. I put a piece of fine drywall sanding screen on a piece of 1/4" glass. Add lots of water and make a circular path around on the screen. Flood off the grit with water before honing. This will leave some pretty coarse scratches in the stone. I then use a 1200 grit water stone to dress the fine stone. When it gets so flat that the stones stick together, you're there. I only use my 8000 with my Japanese hand planes. I stop at 3000 with my chisels. It still looks like chrome when I'm done.
I have an 800 and 1200 that I keep in a water bath with a couple drops of bleach. The 3000 also does not need to be soaked. I usually only need 3 passes on each stone after grinding. Then a couple passes on the 3000 and a couple on the 8000 for hand planes.
There will be no comparison to the diamond stone. Those things are like pea gravel compared to the water stones. In fact, you could use that to dress the 8000.
The biggest deal is flatening the backs of the chisels and hand plane blades. I finally bought a cheap Woodcraft brand horizontal water stone honing machine. It's crap for honing the bevel, but it's a dream for flatening the backs.

[thedeeredude]

Do you strop after honing?  Theres a really good article over at tools for working wood on sharpening.

http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp/

[leweee]

lots of articles from this company on sharpening. ;D

Lee Valley

[Dave Shepard]

Thanks for the tips. I tried using the extra fine diamond on the waterstone, it seemed to work up a nice slurry, which I guess is the idea with a water stone. I am getting a black buildup that seems to drag down the chisel, I'm guessing that is the metal being taken off? I have been slowly slicing up a little block of white pine experimenting with the chisels. What a difference the honing makes!  8)

Thanks.


Dave

I'll go check out the Lee Valley site. I have Leonard Lees sharpening book.

[Dave Shepard]

Next question: Will a coarse waterstone take material off faster than the 220 grit diamond stone? A lot of the tools I have been playing with need a lot of work in the way of flattening the backs and establishing the bevels. Would like a horizontal grinder, but not an option right now.

Next, next question: What should the "slurry" look like on the 8000? I don't seem to get much other than the water, even if I loosen it up with the diamond stone. Also, should I be flooding the black off of the stone as I am polishing? It seems to really drag things down. Thanks.


Dave

[low_48]

Here's what I have for flattening;
http://woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4866&productid=144846
The water stone would not flatten any faster than the diamond. The one thing to increase pressure would be to use a stick to bear down on the blades while moving it across the stones. Hold the stick in one hand, and grip both the blade and stick with the other hand. Get yourself above the stone and bare down on the stick as you slide them across the stone.
I've also gone to the stationary belt sander when alot of material had to be removed.
Here's another link for a 3 part series on sharpening and water stones.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=111
There should be almost no slurry on the 8000. You will just see some black (steel) forming up on the stone as it cuts. The 800 and 1200 will definitely show slurry, the denser stones will not. Keep plenty of water on the stone. If you are sharpening on top of the black, you're riding on steel.

[Dave Shepard]

I've added another polishing stone to the lineup. It's a ceramic type stone that makes the edge even brighter than the 8000 waterstone, and it doesn't deform with use. It also cuts very fast. The back is coarser, I may be able to go from a green DMT to the coarse side of the polishing stone. I'm testing it for use on woodworking tools. It is currently marketed for a different use. Looks very promising.


Dave

[Hokiemill]

I know it's going to sound bizarre and even controversial but a little method I picked up from a shop I worked at and use regularly is to use a cinder block to flatten my waterstones.  Seems crude, but it works.  Blocks are coarse enough to cut and are manufactured to create a pretty flat surface.  I put a dry stone on the block and rub it around until the stone is an even color and all the high spots are gone.  Simple, cheap, and effective enough to my chisels hair-shaving sharp.

[Max sawdust]

Hi,
My arsonal includes a 8" bench grinder with a blue norton wheel, for squaring blades and creating the initial bevel.  I have XXcourse, Xcourse and course diamond stones for "refining" and raising the initial wire edge.  (The XX course is hard to find but a very handy stone.)
I use Norton water stones in 1000, 4000, and 8000 grit.  I only use the waterstones on my finest tools, for others I use 3M micro abrasives using scary sharp methode.

I gave up on the 220 grit waterstone, because it needs frequent flattening and I find the diamond stones are faster and more durable for the initial work.
I flatten my waterstone's frequently.  I use the XXcourse diamond stone to flatten with.
IMO if you want to create a slurry, just rub the waterstone on the diamond stone a few times.  The Nauga stone is something I never tried and have the feeling I never will...
max

[Dave Shepard]

I have gotten a few different versions of waterstone use. I have a nagura on order, just so I can chalk it up as a hit or a miss. It is supposed to do more than raise a slurry, from what I have gathered. I find I can go from the DMT to the coarse side of the ceramic and skip water stones altogether. The ceramic absolutely will not distort, a great advantage.


Dave