Hardest wood to make lumber from

[morbid fury]

OK I now have a large pile of sawdust. I am so happy.
Anyway back to the question. Over the last few weeks I have sawn a few species up here in Maine.
Todat was quartersawn red oak....no knots all clear...hence I am so happy.
I have saw Hemlock, Birch, Maple, Oak, Ash, and the worst to cut of all of them is the Poplar.....it is like cutting taffy. It grabs the blade and makes the mill work harder than any of the wood listed.
What do you guys find is the hardest wood to mill?

[tyb525]

Black or Honey Locust, White Oak, Osage Orange.

Oh, what kind of blade are you using? Poplar should cut the easiest.

[Burlkraft]

Anything with nails  :-\

[morbid fury]

Agreed...thats why the mill and the metal detector are best of friends

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

RED,GREY AND YELLOW BOX Are about the hardest we get down here and I like sawing them   ;)  ;D  there are some other species that are hard going but are not realy cut in any volume  ;) ;D 8)

Regards Chris

[TessiersFarm]

I just re-sawed (chainsaw and alaskan mill) some pressure treated southern yellow pine yesterday, and man oh man did that stuff cut hard.  I had to stop and touch up the chain every 50 feet or so, I don't know if its the chemicals they treat it with or the wood but if I do it again I'm charging extra.  The other one I don't like is cherry, seams like thats hard on blades.

[tyb525]

Walnut also seems tough, at least the tough I get.

Tessier, some chemical treatments do dull blades.

[Banjo picker]

What we call Poplar down South is about the easiest there is...Sweetgum is easy to saw , but twists  pretty bad when drying...If you are talking just sawing, I would pick ash...for what I have sawn...You had better have your ducks in a row...set just right on both sides or it will make the blade dive...Tim

[Ron Wenrich]

Locust and hickory can give you fits.  If you want some real fun, wait until the logs are half frozen.  Species won't matter. 

[cutterboy]

I agree with Tim. Ash is hard to cut. I think the reason  is that ash is a dry wood. The moisture content of green ash is very low compared with the other species in my area. I think we all know that sawing dried wood is more difficult than green wood. So ash is like sawing wood that is half dried. Hickory can give you fits too, especially hickory with large knots.

   Ralph

[laffs]

ash is my lesat favorite also. makes nice lookin boards . you could be sawiing fine one minute and take a 4" dive the next

[paul case]

as for hard...... dry anything.pc

[Kansas]

Cottonwood is one of the hardest things we have to cut. The fibers tear; they don't cut cleanly. It depends not only on the log, but on a particular face of that log. We have to run very heavy set on the blades. Once in awhile, we have to give up on a very good looking log. We have the same problem going through the edger with it.

[Magicman]

Hickory is my all time un-favorite.  Seasoned White Oak next.

Maybe I need to get some of those WM 7° blades.

[morbid fury]

have a pile of white ash...cut down and on the mill in less that 2 hours....no issues at all

[tyb525]

I've cut several white ash logs and didn't have any problems either.

There was one dead, dry American elm that was the worst sawing log EVER! Not only did the boards come off as bananas, but the blade dived or did something weird almost every other cut. I ended getting two halfway decent boards out of one log. Mind you, these were mostly knot-free too.

[backwoods sawyer]

I find that all of the local hardwoods mill up very nice as long as they are green, however the butt log of an old Doug-fir can be rather unpredictable, one may mill up just fine and the next one you cannot get a saw thru it straight. Old spruce logs can give you fits as well when the fibers wrap around the gullet of even a fresh saw out of the box. 

[Chuck White]

Probably my "hardest to saw" logs would be small to medium Spruce.

With all of their knots, the blade really wanders sometimes.

When the logs are dry, they're worse.

[Papa1stuff]

MM,try some 4* for real hard wood!!

[ladylake]

 White ash, saws ok but not very fast. Unless I count 15 big 15 year old white oak, later I found out they were 30 years old. Hard as rock, no bark with cracks about 3" deep to collect dust. I was changing blades every 45 minutes on that job.   Steve

[LeeB]

Live Oak. Hardest stuff I ever put a blade in.

[Papa1stuff]

Live Oak is hard but very pretty lumber!! ;D

[Bert]

I'm on a circle mill, but hard maple is my least favorite. Hard, heavy, and lumpy. Cherry is best in my opinion. Poplar saws fast too but the stringy dust sometimes clogs the blower.

[brdmkr]

Live Oak. Hardest stuff I ever put a blade in.

I've cut live oak when it was green and thought it cut pretty easily.  Once it is dry, it is an intirely different story.  Pecan is the toughest that I have had to deal with.  I sometimes wonder if some woods are easier to saw with a circle blade and others are harder with a band.  For instance, I do not consider SYP easy to saw on my Lucas (It seems to want to bind and gum up).   I prefer sawing about any green hardwood (other than pecan/hickory). 

[crtreedude]

Probably the worst stuff we have cut was corteza (think ipe) that came out of an old bridge. Pure heart wood, so hard that it made sparks (no metal). We cut it with a bi-metal blade on a 20 HP Baker's.

What made it particularly painful is that we had to split some of the logs with a chainsaw, they were too wide for the Baker. 

[Kansas]

You just never know. I always thought soft maple has always been one of the easiest woods to cut. One time some years ago, we put a beautiful soft maple on the mill after cutting several others before it from the same batch of logs. Not a knot on the log. We went to cut. The blade dove. Figured it was just dull. Replaced the blade. It dove again. Think we went through 7 blades and still didn't have a decent opening face yet. Tried turning it and trying it. tried that. No luck. Tried another side. Same thing. We gave up and took it off the mill. Put the next soft maple on the mill and it cut perfectly. From time to time, a manufacturer would send us a blade to try. We would put it on the mill. Nothing. We tried different sets, different hook angles, whatever we could try. It kind of became an obsession to us. We got an order for a couple of beams. They did not have to be good quality. We managed to finally get the log into two of those. Blade rose and dove the whole way. Looking at the grain, we couldn't see a single reason for it. There was no curl or figure.

[customsawyer]

Pig nut hickory!!!  smiley_bull_stomp

[backwoods sawyer]

You just never know. I always thought soft maple has always been one of the easiest woods to cut. One time some years ago, we put a beautiful soft maple on the mill after cutting several others before it from the same batch of logs. Not a knot on the log. We went to cut. The blade dove. Figured it was just dull. Replaced the blade. It dove again. Think we went through 7 blades and still didn't have a decent opening face yet. Tried turning it and trying it. tried that. No luck. Tried another side. Same thing. We gave up and took it off the mill. Put the next soft maple on the mill and it cut perfectly. From time to time, a manufacturer would send us a blade to try. We would put it on the mill. Nothing. We tried different sets, different hook angles, whatever we could try. It kind of became an obsession to us. We got an order for a couple of beams. They did not have to be good quality. We managed to finally get the log into two of those. Blade rose and dove the whole way. Looking at the grain, we couldn't see a single reason for it. There was no curl or figure.

Ever so often, we would come across a Doug fir that would act like that. Both saw on a double cut twin would snake to the outside of the log even though they were set to make 4" cuts on both sides of the log. Some times you could reject the log and have the cat driver turn it around and then chuck it up at 90* to the way it was and it would cut just fine, and other times it was just sent to the slabber.

[Okrafarmer]

Locust, pecan and hickory are the worst I have tried. Oaks are not easy, either.

Easiest: Walnut, sweetgum, red cedar, white pine, and tupelo.

[drobertson]

Hickory, Hickory, and oh yea Hickory, the only thing about Hickory is the dryer the better. for me, Green Hickory and I mean ones that are over 14 in. is they just build up heat. Dry hickory cuts with plenty of coolant. Dry white oak is next, or should I say Post oak. these guys are brutal. sharp blades, plenty of coolant, the only answer I have found. Hickory on my saw, not unless it is the last log I have to cut. Love the smell, don't like the heat and wave,  these logs are the most brutal for me,  Hickory, such a pretty wood too, what a shame on me.

[tyb525]

Green hickory needs soap in the water or diesel, it can have a lot of sap build up

[WDH]

Pig nut hickory!!!  smiley_bull_stomp

You can say that, again!

[hackberry jake]

I actually think bodark is one of my favorite woods to cut. It requires very little set and I don't think I have ever seen a wave in the lumber, dead flat every cut. My least favorite is definately pecan, next is scaly bark hickory, then pig nut, then locust. My favorite to cut is sycamore, cuts like butter without lube.

[tyb525]

I like cutting locust, both honey and black. It is a hard wood, but cuts nice when it is green. I like the way honey locust smells too, it's hard to describe.

[bandmiller2]

As mentioned it varies between logs of the same species depending on there grain and internal tension.I find any of the oaks a dream to mill,just too DanG heavy.Ash tends to lay down a deposit on the band teeth,but cuts straight.I don't mind dried hardwoods just have to slow down milling them. Frank C.

[Larry]

The only hardwood that bothers me much, is big logs with even bigger knots.  The kind of logs that should have been turned into firewood.  If pignut its triple trouble.

[Magicman]

I saw whatever the customer has, but dry White Oak would be my least favorite.   :-\

[tcsmpsi]

Overall, I would say SYP.  Some woods, like dry pecan, etc. you expect to be tough, so you set up and go into it for that.  And, most of those type logs are pretty consistent throughout.  SYP, however, will be sawing along fine, have some beautiful lumber, and then you run into rich/hard/soft, and makes it the devil to keep a straight cut.

Now, cottonwood, down here saws well, but if you want a 1" board out of it, you need to cut it 4".   :D

[Chuck White]

I know that I said my least favorite to saw was small to medium Spruce, but the hardest logs I ever sawed were 3 Hickory logs that I had stored under cover, high and dry for 9 years.

We sawed them in the evening and actually saw sparks coming off the log and the feed rate was approximately 1/3 that which I run when cutting W/Pine.

[Okrafarmer]

I should point out that the title of the post is the "Hardest wood to MAKE LUMBER from." And sometimes we sawyers forget that sawying is not the only part of making lumber. Drying is also involved. From that perspective, let's add that in my experience, holly, cherry and persimmon are very hard to dry with nice results. I have heard it is the same for sycamore and sweetgum as well, although the sweetgum 4/4 I have milled up seems to be drying nicely under weight from other species piled on top of it. I have never tried sycamore. Funny how sometimes the species that are easy enough to mill end up being the difficult ones to dry.

The ones I have found that are both easy to mill and easy to dry include walnut, red maple, tulip poplar, red cedar, white pine, and tupelo.

But Pecan (and I assume hickory, though I haven't much experience with it), is both hard to mill and hard to dry.

[pineywoods]

Think I would have to agree with TC. Syp normally cuts easily, but every once in a while I get hold of a butt cut from a big ole lightening killed syp that is as cantankerous as they come. When I use up 3 blades and 5 gallons of lube on one 12 ft log, that qualifies as difficult.

[Magicman]

Many times, sawing and drying wows are caused by the sawyer not properly reading the log and opening the wrong face, then sometimes the log/lumber simply exerts it's authority and shows who is boss.    :-\

[Thehardway]

1. Seasoned live oak.  Never did finish.  Wasn't worth the blades.
2. Gum.  sawed ok but then turned into a propeller blade
3. Anything dragged down a gravel road

[WDH]

Remember, "Pecan is the Devil".

[cutterboy]

Ash used to be my least favorite to saw even tho I love the lumber. However, this spring I sawed up a number of Shagbark Hickory logs and they are now my worst to saw. But the lumber is beautiful.



  

 

[hackberry jake]

Remember, "Pecan is the Devil".

Wise words from a wise man wdh  ;D

[WDH]

Hackberry,

I should have attributed the quote to you.  You were the first to point out this fact to the unsuspecting.

(Note: Trees of the genus Celtis have given me fits in the past, too  ).

[Okrafarmer]

(Note: Trees of the genus Cletis have given me fits in the past, too  ).

I do believe you mean Celtis.

[WDH]

Yes. 

[LeeB]

only one word? are your fingers broke?  :D

[hackberry jake]

I have had many a bother from the genius celtics in my days. The Precambrian layer is just as proposterous as the juvenile adolescent jurassic period of the late wood.
(my impersonation of wdh)  8) 8) ;D

[Left Coast Chris]

The worst Ive sawn was Pistacio followed by Pecan.  The Pecans were larger though and took longer.  The Devil indeed.  Not only that, but the sugars in the wood discolored it in drying.  Double trouble.  Im still trying to figure out a use for it besides firewood.

If we were talking about drying, I'd say Apple.  Yowza.....

[WDH]

only one word? are your fingers broke?  :D

No  :D.

[WDH]

Hackberry,

I don't know where to be flattered or insulted  :D.

[5quarter]

I have to second Chris' comment about Apple. Almost impossible to get usable lumber from, although that has not stopped me from sawing it every chance I get. you have to saw alot of Apple to get any real usable lumber, But IMO, it is worth the time. I have some applewood in my little stash you would not believe. Also, its worth noting that there is a significant difference between orchard or yard apple and wild apple growing in the woods.

[LeeB]

Well?

[LeeB]

only one word? are your fingers broke?  :D

No  :D.

OK  :D

[Okrafarmer]

I have to second Chris' comment about Apple. Almost impossible to get usable lumber from, although that has not stopped me from sawing it every chance I get. you have to saw alot of Apple to get any real usable lumber, But IMO, it is worth the time. I have some applewood in my little stash you would not believe. Also, its worth noting that there is a significant difference between orchard or yard apple and wild apple growing in the woods.

Well?

Well?  ???

[Magicman]

This is Tom's picture of "Apple" wood. 


 

[barbender]

I've sawn tamarack that I couldn't make a 2x4 out of because it would twist on the mill, but then again, this spring I sawed some tamarack that was some of the nicest sawing wood I've came across. Also, this summer I sawed a pile of mixed ash logs, black and white (actually I think it is green ash, but everyone up here calls it white) The Black Ash saws very well, but the White Ash is very dry, it was giving me fits, even with the WM 7° blades. I still need to finish that job, not really looking forward to it.

[LeeB]

The worst for me has been oak wilt killed Live Oak. The stuff is hard as a rock and will do in a blade just about as fast. Checks like craazy if you let it dry too fast and is haevy as all get out.

[5quarter]

Oops...thanks Okra. I read LeeBs post and thought, "well what?"

   In upstate NY where I'm from, Apple grows wild everywhere. while some apples growing in pastures resemble orchard trees, many grow in mixed hardwood forests alongside the maples, cherries and pines. In that enviroment, they grow very straight and tall and shed lower branches very quick. little or no reaction wood in them. orchard or yard apple rarely if ever has a real sawlog in it and would not be worth the effort if it were almost any other tree. I happen to really love the look of applewood, but living in Nebraska now, no longer have access to good trees.  :(
   FWI when sawing apple...don't let the log sit more than a month or two. saw it right away. it white rots very fast.

[LeeB]

Ah ha.  :D

[Okrafarmer]

Did you hear the one about three holes in the ground? "Well, well, well."  :

[logboy]

 Hardest wood to make lumber from? The wood whose logs you overpaid for that you know you'll probably never be able to sell at a decent profit. Sawing those logs is a miserable experience.

[shelbycharger400]

Dry green ash   
Its very hard on my slabber chains.
my favorite to saw is Red oak, its not as fast as pine but I might make a profit off of them.  I have been able to run through them faster but soon as you hit a Y it rides up (bows the saw bar).  I go super slow on 12 in to 20 in wide oak now, surface finish is nearly smooth with 10-60-10 grind now, rakers at 25-30 thou.  50 thou raker is too grabby at speeds im running.