Wisdom of The Elders: How to learn from them?

[SawyerBrown]

A number of different threads have been mixing around in my head and have generated a question.  The FF is made up of "Elders" -- be it age or (more importantly for this discussion) experience, and "newbies", and everything in between.  So we have people who know sawing like the back of their hand, and those who don't have a clue what they're doing.  (Note: I consider myself more on the "clueless" end of the scale ...).  So, the question is, is there a way to share the Wisdom of the Elders?

Obviously, the FF is a great place to read and get advice.  In my experience, though, there's nothing quite like hands-on.  That can be attained by years of trial-and-error without guidance, or it can be learned from an Elder. When I think Elder, I think Magicman (experience, not age!), and I'm sure there are many others.

Has anyone ever considered offering a "class"?  My vision of a "class" might be shadowing an Elder Sawyer for a day or a couple of days, observing and asking questions.  Should include quartersawing, "Bibbying", sawing burls, etc etc and any requests that a customer may have, from their experience.  The Elder Sawyer could ask for a per-day/per-class fee, or he could take advantage of free labor for loading logs/off-loading as payment.  I hesitate to suggest that "students" would eventually run the mill -- puts the mill at risk, and may or may not be what they'd be running anyway.  The objective of the class would be to learn how to saw logs, not how to run a mill.

Another option might be for interested sawyers to bring their mills in on a big job, and the Elder Sawyer would simply supervise ....  However, that would limit the class to portable mills.

I personally want to do the absolute best job I can for my customers, giving them the most / best-quality lumber possible from a log.  While I feel like I'm getting better with every job, I'm sure there is an awful lot to learn yet.  And there's folks out there that are the best in the industry.

Interested in comments!  Thanks ...

Pete

[barbender]

I think MM just hosted one of those down in Texas ;)

[LeeB]

I'm pretty sure that any of the "elders" on here would be happy for you to come by and learn something. Find one close to you and ask if he wants some company for the day, or two.

[pineywoods]

Sawyer, there is a lot more one on one tutoring going on than you would think, mostly thanks to the forestry forum. Never heard of anyone charging a fee, although most of us will gladly take advantage of extra help. You never know what kind of expertise a visiting helper might have that would prove useful. Example..I recently had a visitor who is building his own bandmill, but had never seen a bandmill in operation, had no idea how to go about sawing a log. Turns out he is very competent in electronic matters and is designing and building a home-made setworks, something that interests me greatly. The exchange of ideas went both ways...

[Nomad]

     The Sycamore Projects (I & II) held at CustomSawyer's place are a good example.  Nothing formal going on, just a bunch of friends getting together and having a good time.  Don't matter a bit that some of those friends are folks you never met before. :D

[thecfarm]

I have shown other how to do things around here. It cost me a meal. I am in the hole for dollars,but in friendship I am way ahead.  ;D As they say,Pay It Forward.

[Texas Ranger]

Barbender, I believe those were over in Georgia, Mississippi and other points.  Don't know of one in Texas, unless they didn't invite me, which is entirely possible.   8)

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Barbender, I believe those were over in Georgia, Mississippi and other points.  Don't know of one in Texas, unless they didn't invite me, which is entirely possible.   8)

You must not have gotten the memo Tex.  :D

[caveman]

There is an "elder" man near me that I used to pay to saw up a few logs for me on occasion.  He operated a mill at a farm nearby in addition to owning his own manual lt-40.  Whenever I would see him sawing and I had some spare time, I would stop and help him.  He had a lot of knowledge to share.  He often told me that he never bought a log (he always had plenty to saw).  Also, he refused to fell other folk's trees.  He said he was a sawyer and not a logger.  The county shut down the sawing business at the farm where he was sawing because they did not have the proper permits.  Much can be learned from picking the brains of those with experience.
Caveman   

[Ljohnsaw]

So, to find someone, one just needs to search the forum profiles for someone nearby?  Problem is, there are only about 8 within 150 miles of me (in any direction) as shown on the Member Map.  And none of them are "active" on the forum.  Funny thing, my pin was not there - so I edited my pin (was there), saved and now it shows.  That makes me think the Map is not showing everything.

So I go to the Members Search function.  Lots of great ways to search, but not by State or region or something like that.  Jeff?  Could that be added?  Utilizing the Google map coordinates (if everyone set their position) with a range of 100 or 200 or ? miles, that would be fantastic!  But I could live with just a State sorting/search.

[Wellmud]

I feel the same way, I am mechanically inclined so when I bought my mill it didn't take me long to learn the basics of running the mill, but there is so much to know about sawing logs to get the most out of them, I would love to be able to work with someone to see the why and hows they saw different logs.

[LeeB]

Try checking with the manufacturer of your mill for owners in your area and other manufacturers also. Most millers are happy to share their experience. Call first before you show up. explain what you want to do and for sure offer your labor.

[SawyerBrown]

All great advice, thanks. 

Wellmud and ljohn bring up good points about trying to find sawyers within reasonable driving distance, but even then it's a question of their level of expertise and experience.  I've done quite a bit of posting on the FF the last couple of months (got lots of time on my hands after that back surgery!), but that doesn't make me a great sawyer.  If someone called me up and wanted to shadow me for a day (and do some work!), I'd sure welcome them to do so, but my fear would be what they're learning from me may be the WRONG way to do things.  Or, if not wrong, maybe at least there's a better way.  I'd be happy to teach someone what little I do know, but I sure wouldn't consider myself a sawyer "elder" -- not by a long shot.

By the same token, probably not worth my time to work with someone with same or less experience (although there certainly is the social aspect!!).  Time better spent with someone who has been at it a long while and really knows his stuff.

I looked at a couple of random profiles, and there's generally no way to tell.  What about adding annual or total bf cut?  Years in business?  One's personal opinion about where they fall on the newbie-to-elder scale?  I don't know, I'm just rambling here ...

[thecfarm]

I have a step son that helps on some of my building. I tell him now you know how not to build something.  ;D

[Cedarman]

When I first started sawing in 83, I had zero experience.  There were only circle sawmillers around.  I spent some time figuring things out.  I looked at the goals and then figured out how to get there.  Trial and error.  Research and Development.  When I got into cedar a good many people kind of laughed at me wanting to saw nothing but a junk tree.
My advice is to spend as much time thinking as sawing for the first little while.After you saw for a while, then visit with a half dozen other sawyers looking for the things that will make your own sawing better.  Technique is one part of sawing. Having the right equipment is another.  Having the right logs for the product you want to make is another.
One of the best things I have ever done is take a hardwood lumber grading short course.  Meet the folks who take the class, they can become resources.  I went to Don Laskowski's woodmizer seminar on value added.  That day made me a lot of money in the future.  I visit trade shows and look at equipment.  I would go to the sawmill shootout and if they let you, video as much as you can so you can study the moves they make, how they handle lumber and arrange things around their mill.
Those are just some thoughts that popped into my head as to how to become an expert.  Wisdom is available from many places.

[backwoods sawyer]

When working in the production mill we rotated between four sawyers every two hours. We all had different ways of doing the same tasks, when I was training a new sawyer they spent equal time with all the sawyers on the shift that way they could learn all the bad habits and good habits as well. When changing from one sawyer to the next hopping in the seat was always done as the log was coming in to be set in the carrige. I asked my sawyers to take a few min and pass on any issues, how the saw was running why they are sawing at 70%, 80%, 90%, and that few extra min during rotation help pin point issues, and kept prodution high.

learning is not just done by the sawyer who is in training, we all learn from each other, and rotating sawyers gave all of us a chance to learn from each other and keep us all at the top of our game.

[Wellmud]

Backwoods Sawyer, you are right it is always interesting to see how somebody else does something. When I was a teenager I worked part time, at a part time sawmill (sawyer had a day job). It was just the sawyer and me, I got rotated from off bearing slabs to loading logs on the deck ;D I learned that some slabs are heavier than others and never let the saw run out of wood. Looking back I understand that sawing part time he needed to move wood with the little time he had to saw.

[AnthonyW]

I think MM just hosted one of those down in Texas ;)

Funny. I was thinking the same thing. 100% hands on from an actually sawyer in the field.