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AT fuel mix

Started by TrevorP, September 29, 2018, 10:33:44 PM

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Al_Smith

Oh my goodness I go out of town for a few days and somebody resurrects the oil wars .I nearly missed it . :(

ZeroJunk

The Stihl rep said that HP Ultra would work fine at 70 to 1 . The reason there is no consensus on oil mixes is because anywhere from probably 10 to 1 with an occasional fouled plug and 70 to 1 with good oil and it really doesn't make a flip.

So, you run 32 to 1 and everything works great and you swear that 32 to 1 is the obvious best choice.

And, of course ignore the fact that anything else within reason and you wouldn't have had any problems either.

HolmenTree

There is still a 32:1 mix ratio on the chart of the Stihl Ultra mix bottle label.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Al_Smith

Quote from: HolmenTree on October 08, 2018, 08:45:26 AM
There is still a 32:1 mix ratio on the chart of the Stihl Ultra mix bottle label.
See I told you.If Stihl thinks it's a valid option and it's on the internet it must be true .They don't think that less is more why should anybody else ?
The great never ending oil debate or war whatever the case.Gotta love it 8)

ZeroJunk

Why would anybody selling oil advertise that less will do the job. Other than Amsoil, who knows about them.
Why would anybody selling saws suggest anything that would cause them problems.

I suspect Stihl and Husqvarna have tested every way imaginable and if there was anything to running more than 50 to 1 they would be all over it.

But, people are perfectly capable of believing anything.

trapper

Went to get saw gas today.  Putting oil in the can I spilled a fair amount.  Didnt know just how much i spilled but I know less than half.  I added 1 gallon of gas.  I then added the proper amount of oil for 2 gallon at 50 to 1 to another can put in 2 gallons of gas and mixed the 2 cans together and should result in a slightly heavy mix.
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

Southside

Quote from: ZeroJunk on October 08, 2018, 06:19:20 PM

Why would anybody selling saws suggest anything that would cause them problems.


The EPA. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Al_Smith

The less is more thing goes like this .For reasons unknown some have suggested that heavier oil mixes lean out the fuel to air ratio causing a lean burn .The fuel to air mixture always had been controlled by the carb .Maybe somebody rewrote the book of physics and didn't tell me about it .
Where this idea that heavier mix ratios caused carbon build came from I really don't know .The old boat motors used 30WT oil mix at 16 to 1 and the only time they carbon fouled was running slightly above idle at trolling speeds .Even then you pull your lines and open it up.In about 5 minutes good as new .

bandmiller2

I have mentioned this years ago. I was the mechanic for a medium sized fire dept. We would keep a can of mix and a can of straight gas on the trucks. When they weren't looking I would mix 100/1 Amsoil in the straight gas can so if they  dumped the pure gas in a saw no harm. We had some old two cycle Homelite pumps that called for a real rich mixture of oil something like 10/1. When they would take them out pumping I would give them a couple of plugs and a wrench, they would smoke and puke out the exhaust. I got fed up and put 50/1 in the tank kinda expecting to get some new pumps. The old homies thought it was ice cream they perked up and never ran better and are probably still running. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Al_Smith

Look at it like this .Those old Homies running 10 to 1 could substitute as mosquito foggers while moving water therefore doing double duty in a way .You're probably right about still running some of that old stuff was designed to run forever .

John Mc

Quote from: Al_Smith on October 08, 2018, 07:51:42 PM
The less is more thing goes like this .For reasons unknown some have suggested that heavier oil mixes lean out the fuel to air ratio causing a lean burn .The fuel to air mixture always had been controlled by the carb .Maybe somebody rewrote the book of physics and didn't tell me about it .
Where this idea that heavier mix ratios caused carbon build came from I really don't know .The old boat motors used 30WT oil mix at 16 to 1 and the only time they carbon fouled was running slightly above idle at trolling speeds .Even then you pull your lines and open it up.In about 5 minutes good as new .
The only time I've ever heard anyone make that argument was in the context of trying to convince someone to tune their saw to the fuel they are actually using, and if they switched fuel (whether changing the fuel/oil mix or changing from ethanol to non-ethanol gas), to consider adjusting their carb to match.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

ZeroJunk

Some boat motors used plugs that did not have an over lapping electrode, just arced to the sides. I had one. A Force something or the other. And, they stayed fouled even at 50 to 1 .  I replaced them with a standard type plug and had no more problems. Didn't see any difference in performance and they didn't poke a hole in the piston. so, all good.

barbender

I have a 40 horse Mercury that uses the same style plug. I don't believe I ever fouled one. I did have an electrode fall off in my saw and destroy my p&c in short order, because the saw kept running. The plug was functioning just like those outboard plugs👎
Too many irons in the fire

hamish

Quote from: Al_Smith on October 08, 2018, 07:51:42 PM
The less is more thing goes like this .For reasons unknown some have suggested that heavier oil mixes lean out the fuel to air ratio causing a lean burn .The fuel to air mixture always had been controlled by the carb .
True however most have missed the part in the book that tells that a richer fuel/oil mix results in a leaner fuel/oil mix, thus reducing the available fuel/oil mix for cooling and performance...........unless the carb is adjusted accordingly to account for the fuel/mix and air mixture from the carb.  Thats what many forget.
Norwood ML26, Jonsered 2152, Husqvarna 353, 346,555,372,576

John Mc

Quote from: hamish on October 09, 2018, 09:24:39 PM
Quote from: Al_Smith on October 08, 2018, 07:51:42 PM
The less is more thing goes like this .For reasons unknown some have suggested that heavier oil mixes lean out the fuel to air ratio causing a lean burn .The fuel to air mixture always had been controlled by the carb .
True however most have missed the part in the book that tells that a richer fuel/oil mix results in a leaner fuel/oil mix, thus reducing the available fuel/oil mix for cooling and performance...........unless the carb is adjusted accordingly to account for the fuel/mix and air mixture from the carb.  Thats what many forget.
Did you mean a richer fuel/oil mix results in a leaner fuel/air mix? I cold see that if it increased the viscosity of the fuel/oil mix - the carb would pull less of it through, if it were not adjusted to compensate. I'm curious how much of an effect that would actually have the difference between 32:1 and 50:1 mix amounts to an extra 1.4 oz of oil in a gallon of gas.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

HolmenTree

So are we saying if we mix 10:1  compared to 50:1 the L and H speed screws need to be turned out to richen for the leaner gas to air intake?

I see it differently as I see the mix oil  mixed with gasoline being fuel to burn too. With a carb set for 50:1 with 10:1 mix lots of smoke is coming out of the exhaust and a leaner setting on the L H would be needed to get the rpm and  power up through a cleaner burn.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

I see no potential lean seizure condition with extra oil when there is a stronger barrier of oil between the metal friction surfaces .
Reason my 40 h.p. 125 cc dirt bike engine runs 24:1 and with its one thin piston ring it needs that extra oil for a good ring to cylinder seal 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Al_Smith

 8) ---see why I love the oil wars --- 8) 

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Al_Smith

I suppose , ornery as I am ,
 I could get them on a kick of gasoline or maybe even racing fuel to use in  a standard old work saw .I won't though .Best to let that sleeping dog lie . :D
Then again it could turn into an interesting conversation comparing Ohio sour black crude oil to Venezuela light crude oil for feed stock .I'll have to think about it . 8) 

Mad Professor

No E10, stirred not shaken.

Gearbox

I run Amsoil Saber that is 100 to1 oil . I mix that at 50 to 60 to 1 My saw guy has had them down for other reasons and said they look great inside . The big plus is that when I start the saw the bugs all leave . I have a lot of hours on a 475 Poulan on my processer and never even fouled a plug . 
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

Al_Smith

The only oil fouled plugs I've ever seen were caused by worn out impulse type oil pumps on McCullochs and one Lombard .This allowed bar lube to be sucked into the crank case and at times put a hydra lock on the cylinder in extreme cases .
More times than not in my experience  carbon fouled plugs will have dry black residue not oily .The cause is running too rich of the air to fuel ratio not the oil ratio .Which is not saying before somebody chimes in that it's okay too use some  outlandish ratio like 4 to 1 . 

Southside

I think it's perfectly OK to run 4:1 gas to oil in a saw.  :D  Just be sure to use #6 oil as the mix.  ;D 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Al_Smith

Well I once used 140 WT gear oil in a worn out old Oliver crawler .It still blew blue smoke though lots of it .

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