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Fuel for saws

Started by charles mann, August 21, 2018, 05:06:09 AM

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charles mann

Quote from: John Mc on August 21, 2018, 07:39:19 PM
I will NEVER run 100LL in my chainsaws. I have no desire to inhale the lead-laced exhaust that would be coming out of my chainsaw a couple of feet from my face. I'm fortunate to have non-ethanol auto fuel conveniently available. If I did not, I'd just run E10 gas and make sure I didn;t leave it sitting in my saw when not in use.
i can understand that. i do smell a difference in the exhaust when running LL, compared to reg gas. 
From what iv been told by several small eng svc centers, leaving the fuel in the lines and carb, and more so, leaving the lines and carb empty is bad on these small unit. it may be just their way of trying to sell me on buying their ethanol free premix, @ $12 a qt. during firewood season, i could buy a new power head for the amount i would spend buying their premix.
  
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

John Mc

Quote from: charles mann on August 22, 2018, 01:23:08 AMit may be just their way of trying to sell me on buying their ethanol free premix, @ $12 a qt. during firewood season, i could buy a new power head for the amount i would spend buying their premix.


When I buy a new piece of equipment, I'll buy a can or two of premix, if it qualifies me for an extended warranty (if I recall, Husqvarna does that - or at least they did when I bought a weed whacker a while ago). Other than that, I never use the stuff. As you noted, it's just too DanG expensive.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Al_Smith

I think that use of recommended fuels and oils are more hype and hoopla .I did however buy one brand new weed wacker of the popular orange and white color scheme that came with a couple of bottles of "ultra" which I did use but mixed at 32 to 1 instead of 50 to 1 .I even buy more every so often .It does okay,can't complain .BTW that weed wacker after 4-5 years has never missed a beat .Never failed to start ,never had the carb settings touched since it came from the dealer .Very unusual for me .

sawguy21

Quote from: John Mc on August 22, 2018, 07:42:48 AM
Quote from: charles mann on August 22, 2018, 01:23:08 AMit may be just their way of trying to sell me on buying their ethanol free premix, @ $12 a qt. during firewood season, i could buy a new power head for the amount i would spend buying their premix.


When I buy a new piece of equipment, I'll buy a can or two of premix, if it qualifies me for an extended warranty (if I recall, Husqvarna does that - or at least they did when I bought a weed whacker a while ago). Other than that, I never use the stuff. As you noted, it's just too DanG expensive.
If the equipment is being used on a regular basis I agree but my saws only get fired occasionally so premix makes sense. I need to see if they will start then switch over.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

John Mc

Quote from: sawguy21 on August 22, 2018, 12:12:25 PMIf the equipment is being used on a regular basis I agree but my saws only get fired occasionally so premix makes sense.


Yeah, that premix is supposed to have a longer shelf life.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

charles mann

Al_Smith i concur. Power tool have a tendency to start giving me crap 3-4 yrs after owning it. But my kombi power head is 6yrs old and it has just started acting a fool. Iv only been running av gas for the past 2yrs. Iv replaced the primer bulb 4x and the pick up tube in the tank 1x and regapped the plug 2x. 
The kombi i had prior to this 1 lasted 2yrs and it just crapped out. I had extended warranty on it, took it in for not cracking. Spark was getting to plug and it smelled as if it was getting fuel but no combustion. 
They sent it off and stihl said all repairs were out of pocket bc there was chocolate milk in the valve cover, even though he gasket was not torn and the factory tq stripe was still on the mount screw. 
I bought a new head and put the old 1 in my shed, in hopes of fixing it 1 day, but 6yrs later and its still sitting
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot

Al_Smith

I've never had good luck with so called extended warranties .It' s mostly ink on paper .
As far as "pre mix" ,whatever floats your boat .I'm too much old school to even consider it .Now the mix oil from the famous orange and white saws,it's good oil but I won't mix it 50 to one .My saws my rules . 8)

John Mc

Quote from: Al_Smith on August 23, 2018, 07:30:27 AM
I've never had good luck with so called extended warranties .It' s mostly ink on paper .
As far as "pre mix" ,whatever floats your boat .I'm too much old school to even consider it .Now the mix oil from the famous orange and white saws,it's good oil but I won't mix it 50 to one .My saws my rules . 8)
I've never outright bought an extended warranty, but I need fuel anyway, and I like the metal bottles they come in: I refill them and carry one in a backpack or stuff it in a pocket when I'm working with a chainsaw or my brush cutter in an area where I don't have my tractor or other vehicle. The price is way too much of a rip-off for me to buy it on a regular basis.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

teakwood

I mix my fuel 1:50 with stihl oil since 20 years and have never ever changed a piston/cylinder in any 2 stroke engine.  And we run them hard and in very hot temperatures with high humidity. 
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

John Mc

Oh no! Could @Al_Smith have started another round of The Great Oil Mix Debate? I'd like to think it was inadvertent, but knowing Al ...
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Al_Smith

Nay I say . ;) However in the back of my mind,however small it is I some how knew it would fire up a rebuttal .I'll just sit on the sidelines and giggle once it gets started .You watch if it goes on long enough somebody will suggest 90 WT gear lube and Coleman lantern fluid .The internet,thank you Al Gore  :D

Southside

Quote from: teakwood on August 23, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
I mix my fuel 1:50 with stihl oil since 20 years and have never ever changed a piston/cylinder in any 2 stroke engine.  And we run them hard and in very hot temperatures with high humidity.
Yes teakwood - but you are the well deserved Timbersports Champ, (which I think is awesome) and have the evidence to back it up!!! Unlike us mere mortals!!   :D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

realzed

My own take on this 'fuel thing' led me to initially try and get the best and highest octane pump gas around here which I'm told is supposed to be Shell Ultra (91 octane) which also isn't supposed to contain any ethanol.. I mix it 50/50 with 100 LL av gas and use the Stihl Ultra oil at a 40:1 mixture.  I always used the same oil at a 50:1 ratio previously and no av gas in my previous MS290 saw - but I feel my new 261CM probably deserves the extra bit of oomph the av gas might bring since the octane ratings at the pump seem to be getting lower all of the time around here, and all of my trimmers (hedge & grass) other saws and even lawn mowers, seem to run happier and somewhat cooler on it.
Maybe I'm fooling myself in believing it all is a better set up - but it helps me feel better about it - so for that reason it's worth the extra trouble and bit of expense associated with doing it!  

Al_Smith

Well it isn't like a chainsaw,even a big one is going to inhale gasoline like a turbo charged over bored,stroked  Ford 460 marine engine running full throttle .That thing could suck down more gas in one hour  than a Stihl 290 could in three years to the average user .

lxskllr

Someone [liked] a post in this thread, so I checked it out; well, just cause, and it seems like a good place to put a question I've been thinking of recently. I have one station nearby where I can get alcohol free fuel. If that disappeared, I'd be SOL. I was wondering if a decent strategy would be to cut with corn gas, then for the last fill or two, running premix in the machine. That would save some money using corn gas, and minimize the alcohol in the system with the premix flush.

Sound reasonable? That's more work and thinking than I want to put into running an engine, but I don't want corn gas in my good machines.

hedgerow

Its a good question. I am seeing a lot more of this pre mixed gas oil on the shelf's of the big box stores in my area I wonder how much they are selling. Many stations around here have non corn gas so I guess I won't have to buy the premixed. I am not running corn gas in my old tractors and small engines and I do raise corn for a living. 

ManjiSann

I only have one station near me with ethanol free gas. It's 88 octane and I've started using it in my small engines. So far it's worked well for me but wish I could find it in a slightly higher octane.

Brandon
Poulan Pro 5020AV, Husky 390XP

BandsawBen

Consider yourselves lucky. I have to go to the local airport to get ethanol free fuel. They have 91 and 100 octane. Both at a premium price.  The 100 is low leaded fuel,smells like race fuel.

lxskllr

I should probably checkout the local airport to see what they have. That would be convenient. It's only a couple miles away. My sole source for corn free pump fuel is 25 miles away. It's 30ยข/G more cause PA, and you get the corn free penalty added to that. I only use it for my small engines, and 15G will last about a year, so it isn't an egregious burden, but it sure would be nice if they sold it at the gas stations I could walk to.

donbj

"I only have one station near me with ethanol free gas. It's 88 octane and I've started using it in my small engines. So far it's worked well for me but wish I could find it in a slightly higher octane."

The 88 is fine. Your biggest benefit is the ethanol free aspect
I may be skinny but I'm a Husky guy

Woodmizer LT40HDG24. John Deere 5300 4WD with Loader/Forks. Husky 262xp. Jonsered 2065, Husky 65, Husky 44, Husky 181XP, Husky 2100CD, Husky 185CD

Al_Smith

A couple of years ago I made a jaunt to Denver Col .Over 1000 miles on  I 80 and past a million orange barrels it seems .At one gas stop that had about 40 pumps and not paying attention I started pumping race gas into my car until I noticed what I was doing .Geeze it was about a buck fifty higher  :o I shut it off after about 5 gallons needless to say .The car didn't run any better nor any worse just cost me more .Big ado over nothing .

thecfarm

I just use the highest grade of gas that I can get at my local station. But 5 gallons does not last me long if I am really cutting. I use the highest grade I can get in all my small engines.The only thing that I have really noticed a difference on is my Colorado Chevy pickup. When I first got it,I was running regular,did not run the best,so I went to high test. Did better,at times,but might even stall at a stop sign. ::)  This gas station was changing the help at lunch times,takes about 10 minutes to take numbers down from the pumps and all the other stuff they do. Well being on lunch,I really did not want to spend 10 minutes there,so I went to another gas station. Got high test and what a difference how the truck ran. I thought it was just running good for a while. Than back to the other one, Started to ran rough again. So back to the one that I felt it ran better on that gas,and it did. Back to the bad station to make sure,started running rough again.  I do not go there to get my gas anymore.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Al_Smith

A lot of people are brand loyal about a lot of things.Ford /Chevy -Stihl/Husqvarna -John-Deere /IH,Case .Gasoline Shell/ Marathon etc .etc .
Many are unaware the only difference in gasoline is the additives and the color of the dye. You have no idea if the gasoline is actually made by the name on the pump at  the gas station or not .
Now the ethanol thing was actually in use long before it was mandated and nobody was the wiser .Years ago Sohio ,standard oil of Ohio sold "winter blend Boron with so called ice guard which was just ethanol .It worked no fuel line freeze up which was common place .Ohio you know, used to get real cold out in winter .I haven't seen 20 below in decades and don't miss it either .The very thought of it makes me freeze up .

ManjiSann

Quote from: donbj on October 04, 2019, 11:44:59 PM
"I only have one station near me with ethanol free gas. It's 88 octane and I've started using it in my small engines. So far it's worked well for me but wish I could find it in a slightly higher octane."

The 88 is fine. Your biggest benefit is the ethanol free aspect
The ethanol free benefit was my understanding as well.  I always read about using higher octanes for this or that but I am no chemist and don't understand it all. 


I was reading in the Husky 390 manual that if one is limbing a lot and the saw will be at high revs for a long time that a higher octane is better to help cool the engine. Anyone have any real world experience with this? There's a little airport near me so if this is the case I may swing by and see if they have any of the higher octane ethanol free gas. Otherwise the only other option I can think of is a mild woodsport to ensure the exhaust is escaping as freely as possible, again having read that can go a long ways to helping keep the engine cool.


Al, chills my blood just thinking about 20 below. I'm not sure I've ever experience it but it sure doesn't sound fun. 


Brandon 
Poulan Pro 5020AV, Husky 390XP

Mad Professor

ManjiSann

Have a look here:  Puregas Utah

Lots of stations with 88 octane, looks like a drive to get 91 octane for yourself. How far off is Herber?

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