Its pretty obvious why it wouldn't start. I ran a few tanks through it yesterday with no issues. Went to use the saw this morning and pulled it a few times. Normally the saw sputters first or second pull and runs in one or two more pulls. I pulled it 5 or 6 times with not a hint of starting and immediately thought something's wrong. I had just topped off the fuel and bad oil so went to the first logical place and pulled the plug. What I found was the plug was missing the ground electrode. I've never seen this before. My concern at this point is the piece that broke off has trashed the cylinder and or piston. The dealer wants to try to fish the broken piece out with a magnet and throw a new plug in it. Should I push for a cylinder inspection? I think they should fix the cylinder and piston if there is any damage. Saw is under warranty and I feel that a plug breaking off is most definitely manufacturing defect and should be warranted.
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Under warranty, for sure the jug should be pulled and piston and cylinder inspected. Steve
X2 Stihl may argue that is the plug manufacturer's problem but they are the ones that need to pursue that if it is the factory installed one.
you would be surprised how often this happens , sometimes you get lucky but most times nope . I would pull the cylinder off cause good chance sparkplug piece will be stuck in the roof of the cylinder or the piston . Also the piece could of went out the ext. port but most times the piston catches the piece going into the port and ruins the ext. top side of piston and cylinder
It is the factory installed plug. Saw is maybe 8 months old. I bought three professional level saws and a industrial power washer from these guys this year. If they give me a hard time about taking care of this the right way I'm going to flip. You guys have confirmed my thoughts and worries. I'm going to bring the saw in tommorow and see what happens. Thanks
Good luck with the warranty most professional stuff is 3 months just the name of the game.
When I bought the saw I told them exactly what I was doing with it and asked about the warranty. The dealer didn't know so he put me in touch with their stihl rep. I told him exactly what i was using the saw for and he told me if I bought the stihl oil it would be covered for one year. I've had issues with this saw since new. I called the dealer about an hour after bringing it home with concerns about the way it was running. I was told to run at least 10 tanks if fuel through it and see if it cleaned up. I did as instructed and it never ran better. I have talked to the dealer a few times since and they said they would need the saw for a week. I told them I use it a few times a week and couldn't be without it for that long at the moment. They said no problem just bring it in when you have a slow week.
As far as warranty was concerned, I was told if it is sold to a company like a tree service or full time logger it was a three month warranty. Like I stated before I told them exactly what I was doing with it. My concern was the warranty covering the saw if used on an Alaskan mill. They said they were selling me the saw as a homeowner purchase and would have the full year if I bought the oil. If they dont stand behind what they told me I'm not going to be happy. I've always ran husky saws without an issue. My 455 is close to 15 years old and I have never replaced a single part. I bought 3 new stihl pro saws this year and so far 2 have needed parts within the first month and now this.
Well I brought the saw in today. I've only been doing business with these guys for about 8 months and they have been great to work with. The reason I started buying from this place is they have a good reputation around town and are willing to work with customers on pricing. Long story short, most definitely covered under warranty. They are going to pull the jug and let me take a look. If there are any scratches or I just dont like what I see they are going to get me a new saw for free. They also said if the piston and cylinder look good and they still can't get it running to my satisfaction they will get me a new saw. They said they are a high volume stihl dealer and have never had an issue with stihl honoring a warranty claim. They were very apologetic about the issues I've had with this saw and assured me they would do whatever it took to make sure I was happy with anything I buy from them.
Glad it worked out for you. I'm doing some milling with an 090, which works great, but curious about the 880. My saw really does well, I mainly cut big stuff, 3 - 4 diameter. Using a Granberg mill and milling chain. Not sure if you can compare the two saws, but I'd like to know your experience. I realize you have had problems with your saw.
You can't replace 090 engine displacement with a smaller displacement saw.
I milled with my 1994 090AV for over 20 years and even tried a well broke in 880 on the mill. The 137cc 090 outclasses them all if milling big timber.
But having said all that I never got to try a 106cc 090 Gear drive. I heard stories of legends with millers in the California redwood country running 8 foot Alaskans with 090Gears running 137cc P/C.
Doesn't get any better then that :D
Busy, I had an NGK factory installed plug come apart just like that on my Jonsered 2171. It was cutting, and all of the sudden it started rattling really bad. I shut it off as quick as I could. I pulled the cylinder, and my piston and the head were hammered badly. I could've maybe saved the cylinder, the piston was destroyed. The electrode I found in the bottom end, it hadn't caused any issues there. Seems to be more of these plugs doing this👎 Was yours an NGK?
Yup NGK, from what I see in the 3rd pic.
Homestead, I really have nothing to compare it to as far as milling goes. Recently I did get to see a proper running stock 880 bucking some large logs. It confirmed my thoughts on mine being a dud. Mine has been doggy and un responsive since day one.
And yes guys it's the factory installed NGK spark plug. Considering asking the dealer if they could replace the plugs in my 441 and 201 if they have NGK plugs.
Is there something inherent in saws that would make that happen(high rpm?)? Never seen it before in my life running autos, mowers, and other low revving engines. A data point of two isn't that great, but if this could be an NGK issue, I'd probably replace my plug. I use the saw little enough the warranty could be gone if the plug fell apart.
We use to see it on the 250R's when there was detention also with any plug we tried in them.
My Mercury 40 hp 2 stroke outboard uses plugs that have no attached electrode. Which is how my saw was running and battered itself after the electrode fell off.
Barbender, that is exactly what the mechanic told me today. He said a lot of times if it breaks while running the plug will arc to the case and stay running. As you have experienced that will likely trash everything. He said on occasion you might get lucky and have the piece blow out the exhaust port and get stuck in the muffler.
Makes me wonder if the saw's poor performance history was somehow related to some original defect in the plug before it finally failed, or if the poor performance of the saw caused the plug to fail.
Either way, it should be the dealer's problem, not yours. Sounds like they are handling it as they should.
I've had cracked insulators in my Stihl's, and even badly eroded electrodes after too long between plug changes, but thankfully, I've not had the electrode get swallowed.
With the amount of money you spent there,they should stand behind the product. Glad they did.
Quote from: HolmenTree on September 01, 2018, 10:54:37 AM
You can't replace 090 engine displacement with a smaller displacement saw.
I milled with my 1994 090AV for over 20 years and even tried a well broke in 880 on the mill. The 137cc 090 outclasses them all if milling big timber.
The 090 has more displacement and maybe more torque(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/huh.gif). But the 088 has more hp output because of higher rpms.
I have milled hundreds of hours with a 088 and that saw is a beast, have cut some 20" wide ironwood, that just like glas, 8' long one tank per cut(https://forestryforum.com/board/Smileys/default/shocked.gif). when you finish the cut the oil left almost boils the saw gets so hot, it's amazing these saws can take such abuse. 95 degrees temp and 90-100% humidity. And with .404 chain, we don't have such things as low profile chains, skip or semi skip here. not available
I think the 088,880 and 090 are comparable for milling.
Teakwood, one thing I have noticed with my 880 is that it runs cool. Quite often I need more than a tank of gas to finish a single cut. I don't even shut the saw off to fuel up. Just leave it in the cut and pour some gas in and keep on going. I think it's running really rich which is keeping it cool but also using a lot more fuel than it should. I can run two tanks straight of fuel through it on a 90 degree day and the plastics are barely warm to the touch.
Teakwood, h.p. specs of the 880 and 090 mean nothing.
You need to try a 090 milling and especially a 090 with its govenor disabled like I did with mine that raises its h.p. off the chart.
Not only does the 090 have 15cc more displacement it also has a oversized outboard clutch with brake lining material on the shoes and a finned cast aluminum muffler... that keeps the engine much cooler then a 880 under the heaviest cutting milling.
But as I said disable the 090 govenor and keep the H speed screw set at light 4 stroking and run it 32 to 40:1 and that saw will surprise you.
I disabled mine right from day one when brand new, ran it that way for 20 years.
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A photo from the spring of 2005 with a contract I had with the local pulp and paper mill. I bought this 090AV new in 1994. I bought my first new 090 in the late '70s.
As the photo shows for several months 12 hours a day my worker and I cut these cull (not suitable for market) 54 inch diameter 14 foot long kraft paper rolls in half to fit in the repulper machine.
With a mile of cement bag strength paper in these rolls, this was the hardest thing I ever cut.
The 090AV with govenor disabled took 5 minutes at WOT to make the one cut. Only chain that would stand up was Stihl .063 harvester chain on the 5 foot bar with helper handle.
Saw was using up 5 to 6 gallons of gas and a gallon and a half of bar oil a day.
By the start of summer temperatures were in the upper 90's and we were wearing shorts under safety chaps.
But the heat didn't bother the 090, she just kept on motoring. :)
On a good day over 40 rolls cut.
Yowza. I can see where one of those stack cutters with a harvester bar would have been quite useful there, or even a modified slasher saw.
Quote from: Southside logger on September 04, 2018, 10:28:15 AM
Yowza. I can see where one of those stack cutters with a harvester bar would have been quite useful there, or even a modified slasher saw.
Yes the mill did end up buying a expensive hydraulic gillateen machine after my contract ran out.
At the time they had a few years of these cull rolls stored in their warehouse and gave up recycling them back into the repulper with a carpet knife. So they hired me for a $100 an hour. It was good when it lasted.
The 090 briefly stopped for a few hours when it's exhaust ignited the paper roll and cuttings underneath it. The saw was stuck mid cut with wedges driven in tight above it.
By the time I got the fire hose out and put out the fire the paint was burned off the 090 covers, fuel line burned up , spark plug cable insulation burnt off.
I wrapped electrical tape around the bare exposed spark plug wire, the foremen gave me a piece of rubber hose to replace the fuel line and I was back cutting.
Holmen, that there looks like no fun at all!
Quote from: barbender on September 04, 2018, 03:32:21 PM
Holmen, that there looks like no fun at all!
I was 47 then and yeah 12 hour days doing that is tough for any age :D
Actually the first week on the job I did it alone. Quickly came to realize being 21 years old was a long time ago.
So I got a helper to man the other end of the bar, that sure helped.
Today, almost 61 I'm still climbing, dragging brush, feeding the chipper, cutting and loading rounds . Grinding stumps and throwing buckets of stump chips on the trailer. Been working alone doing this 5 days a week for the last 10 years.
Wouldn't have it any other way. ;D
Here's a pic of some of the burnt 090 parts I kept. About 10 years ago I was able to buy brand new OEM covers from Stihl Canada.
If it was a 880 it would have been a melted blob.
Last pic is the same saw near completion of restoration. I sold it to a young guy in southern Manitoba.
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So what your saying is that the aches that you feel in your 61 year old body don't compare to the pain in the butt an employee can be?😁 And again, that saw might look better when you got done with it then when you started. Nice work👍
Thanks barbender, it was a long restoration and proud to say no Chinese parts went into it.
I got no aches or pains not yet anyways. Bigger pain is trying to keep a right hand man to do bullwork. When I did have employees I once had 6 at one time, now that I can tell lots of stories about :o.
Strange as it might seem I saw for the first time an 880 Stihl in use just last week .It was by a tree trimmer taking down about a 30 inch dead white oak in my neighbors yard .With no bad mouthing the saw it certainly did not have the guts as the 084 I had residing in my shed .Restrictive exhaust I suppose .
Being somewhat of a show off I showed the trimmer what a good tuned saw cuts like .I wanted to check for metal in the log by looking for blue in the wood and cut the butt end off the log with an 038 Magnum that peaks out at 14,600 RPM .He was speechless ,I was amused . 8)---ain't I a stinker --- :)
any of the big cc saws suck in stock form BUT a little grinding here and there makes a huge difference , I feel the same way about the 395
Update. Got lucky, the electrode was in the exhaust. No cylinder or piston damage. They agreed that it was running too rich and couldn't get the carb adjusted properly. They have a new carb coming tomorrow. All covered under warranty.
Honestly I would want to see that , even at idle just figure out the number of rpms that piston is going up and down past the ext. port . Just my small thinking but its a very small window for any piece of metal to get out into the ext port without the piston catching it and driving it into the roof of the port . I seen this lots when I was working at a stihl dealer and pretty much always nailed the piston
Ehp, my neighbor is a retired stihl tech and said he's seen it go both ways. They said they took plenty of pictures to show me. This place has an outstanding reputation around here and I doubt they would try to pull anything dishonest. They have said and another local dealer as well as me neighbor that Stihl is easy to work with on warranty claims. I don't see any reason for them to lie about it.
Well I picked up my saw today. No damage to the engine and new carb installed. The thing screams now, crisp and snappy throttle response. It's a whole ne animal now. Pretty much buried the 47in bar in some dried redoak log I had here and it just ripped through it. Very happy with the dealer and the performance of the saw.
I'm glad to hear they took care of you!👍 I thought your plug looked really black, did they think the rich mixture had anything to do with the electrode failure?
They didnt really say anything about the cause of the plug breaking except that it happens occasionally. Ran a few tanks of fuel through it today milling with a 60in bar and it was ripping right along. Wish I would have brought it in months ago. Would have saved me hours and hours of cutting time.
I'd run Bosch plugs in it just in case what happened to your NGK.
I always had good luck with Bosch the 40+ years I ran them.
German ones I felt were the best.
Well that was short lived. 880 is back to running like a turtle. Won't hit the high rpms and no power in the cut. New carb fixed it for about 10 tanks of fuel. Any one have any ideas? Using 91 octane rec. Fuel and stihl oil. My 4 other saws have zero issues. I'm perplexed.
That's really frustrating! Did you pull the plug and have a look? This saw doesn't have the electronic carb or anything like that?
Barbender, I didnt pull the plug yet. It is a standard carb no mtronic. I had my neighbor the retired stihl tech stop over and take a look at it. He said it was going to be a hard one for the mechanic to diagnose and fix. He told me to politely push for a new saw. The carb screws make very little change in the way it runs. He said he has turned quite a few stock 880s and a tenth of a turn should produce noticable changes. He turn the high and low from stop to stop and it barely effects the way the saw runs. At least I got to see the true power this saw will produce when running right for a few days. Back to the dealer Monday morning.
I am by no means an expert, but my experience has been that when the saw won't respond to the screws, it's time to start looking for an air leak.
Maybe it's just a lemon, a Monday saw! try to talk them in for a new saw! Then they can figure it out and you can go back to work!
Barbender, from my limited experience with dirt bikes and snow mobiles air leaks cause a lean condition. This thing is running extremely rich, blowing smoke. Bogging like the carb is loading up. If you blip the throttle just right sometimes you can get past the bog and it will clean up and rev. But still blows smoke. My mind immediately goes to carb issues but this is the second carb. Then again a new carb fixed it for a few days.
Teakwood, everytime I talk to the dealer about the saw I refer to it as my "lemon saw". I keep telling them I'm very pleased with my other stihl purchases from them but the 880 is is junk.
Busy, you're right. That spark plug was real black. I really don't know what would cause a chainsaw carb to overfuel, without a float in it. Maybe a coil/timing issue? I've read of saws with a sheared flywheel/crank key, I don't remember the symptoms though. I'm just throwing fairly
random thoughts out there.
I second that opinion about time for a new saw. Certainly needs to be fixed or replaced, but it's become and experiment. All on your time.
This morning I wrote a well thought out response but I deleted it without posting. The short version of this morning's reply was that the nearly new 880 is not a toy, but rather, a tool that you rely on to make part of your living with. You have enough irons in the fire that you should not have to bother tinkering around with a nearly new saw that has had several trips to the dealer and it still does not perform as it should. It is time for them to replace it with a new, correctly functioning 880.
I hope it works out well and that the dealer stands behind their product.
Yep, a pro saw should make you money, not waste your time.
Something really strange is going on with this saw. Just for kicks I started it this morning before I was leaving to bring it in. What do ya know, the darn thing is running like a top. I had some work I needed to do with the saw so I kept it here. I did go to the dealer just to talk to them in person and let them know what was going on with it. I asked about the warranty and replacement of the saw if it keeps giving me trouble. They said i actually have a two year warranty on it, not the 1 year I thought. They said next time it acts up bring it in and they will fix or replace it . I ran through 6 tanks of fuel today without a single hiccup. This thing cuts so well when it's running right and spinning a sharp chain.
Sounds like you've got a good dealer.
It's takes a good while to trust a horse after he bucks you off for no reason. Maybe that saw will straighten up and fly right now.
Sounds like you have a loose wire, intermittent electrical issue or intemittant choke, fuel or airflow issue. The carbs been replaced so it's probably not the problem, but when the carb was replaced, it caused a temporary disturbance and "fixing"of the real problem, which comes and goes. The key is that it can heal itself, so something is moving, reconnecting, or leaking/resealing. Is the choke linkage opening and closing properly? What about the fuel lines? Are they tight, no kinks or crimps? Is the compression release functioning correctly? Are the throttle linkages intact? Loose wire or issue with electrical system can heal themselves, choking and un-choking can heal them selves, compression release can heal itself, bad plug wire connection, intermittent kill switch ground, etc can heal themselves. Is the gas cap vent working properly?
Do you have a tachometer? Or an ohm meter? Spark indicator? I'd open it up and start tugging and testing to make it fail, and identify the root cause.
Or better yet, when it starts acting up again, walk in the front door, lay it down on the counter, grab a new one off the shelf, and swap it out. Let them play with it. ;D