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Tracked or 6 Wheel Harvester? Fixed Head or Dangle Head? Pros and Cons Please

Started by danbuendgen, August 15, 2016, 04:56:45 PM

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Puffergas

I got a new c/c through my credit union and then wanted to ditch the old one but the credit union said that that was a bad idea. Now I'm stuck with two.......... they also wanted to know why I don't have a ton of loans........ they said that is also bad........ I can't do anything right according to the money people.. 😯
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

AlexHart

Good for you.   Pay off your other stuff and just roll with what you have for awhile.   IMHO it may not seem like the glamorous choice but its probably the right one.   Not taking quite as many steps forward is way better than taking a bunch of steps backwards.   You'll get there eventually.

I'm sure there are a few logging vets around here that would agree.   

BargeMonkey

 The guy with the big cat processor is working out back of me again, it looks great till something breaks and he scrambles to get parts from where ever in the country sent asap, I'm willing to bet this guy is 25K a month to Milton Cat, there's no fun in cutting wood like that being under the gun all the time and by the time it's paid for its 3/4 worn out.
The girl who runs my local bank explained that they want to see 30-40% use on a card every month especially on a business card, not maxed but revolving credit. I've had great luck with capital one, everyone speaks english and they are great on fraud protection.

snowstorm

one of the most important thing you younger guys should do is keep your credit rating up way up

danbuendgen

Why is the CC rating so much more important then other types of credit? Like a mortgage or auto loans, band loans,equipment loans, ect? I knew CCs were important, but I had no idea that getting rid of one made it look worse. Guess I will keep the evil thing around if it helps out so much, and try to keep it in the 30-40% range of my card limit. Thanks for the advice.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

Puffergas

How come if ya go bankrupt they will work with to get ya back in the saddle. But if you pay all your bills and don't barrow they don't want anything to do with you. Or kind a like that.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

danbuendgen

What bothers me, is the people who don't work, and chose not to work, get welfare no problem. But someone who works, and pays taxes, but could use a little help to get out of a tough spot, can't get any help.
A few years ago, I had a few large repairs to do right before mud season, that almost drained my bank account of the money we had saved up for living off during mud season. So we applied for food stamps, just to help us through a month or two of little work, until logging started back up. We did not qualify. They don't care about your current situation if you are self employed. They just want to see last years taxes. Oh and they don't count deprecation either.

What bothers me ever more, is the junkies around here. The problem gets worse and worse. They spend all there money on drugs, they don't work, there on welfare, and they steal from anyone. I just moved over to a new job site. With a landing within site of the town road, the first night, someone drained the fuel out of the skidder, and a few things were stolen out of it. Like Gas and oil jugs, files, a new saw chain, my choker poker, saw wrench, and some wedges. I know it had to be junkies, because there have been a lot of break ins in the neighborhood. We reported it to the police (what a joke), and they can't really do anything, or try to keep an eye on the landing at night or anything. One cop told me, "Well you can't blame them, they don't have any money, and you can afford all this logging equipment." I wanted to strangle him!! I screamed I can't afford to have people steal from me, and those F'in junkies spend all there money on drugs! But they don't care, it's like they don't even want to help you. The cops gave me the impression that it's my fault for leaving things unattended, or my fault for not locking things up. So I keep a wildlife camera on the job. Maybe if someone comes again, it can get a plate number, and I'll find them myself. And take care of it on my own. I was thinking of getting a cheap electric fence charger, and alligator clipping it to the equipment at night. Maybe a SHOCK would keep those junkies away.....
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

thecfarm

danbuendgen, ::)  :o
My Father knew of someone that was on welfare. He use to tell my Father,Oh they have plenty of money,they work.  ::)
Not to get this thread going the wrong way,but with all the giveaways,food stamps,insurance,fuel assitance,if a working guy is not making $13 an hour,and gas to travel to a job,than they are making more than he is.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

BargeMonkey

 There was an article in the Albany Times Union a few months ago that a family on the full package from the state / government was equal to a 48kyr job, I know some struggling parents at home with kids who barely make that combined. Friend of mine just had a guy lift some steel for scrap off his farm in daylight, on camera and the cops could have cared less. The system is rigged and hard working people in the middle who are just making it are the ones who get screwed. I will say there are jobs out there for people but not enough people actually want to work, my parents had some trouble finding new qualified truck drivers who could pass the insurance company and backround check, had 1 guy apply and found out he was on disability and was trying to double dip. Didn't go over to well.

Ed_K

 The only thing that's more important than c/cards is paying bills on time. I have c/cards that I only use for emergencies, I use them for small purchases once ever 6 months just to keep them open.
Ed K

danbuendgen

Quote from: thecfarm on August 25, 2016, 07:59:43 AM
Not to get this thread going the wrong way

That's OK. A lot of topics have been covered in this thread so far.. Harvesters, logging woes, credit cards, and now welfare bums who don't want to work. And junkies who steal from hard working folks....
What's next?
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

Puffergas

Quote from: danbuendgen on August 25, 2016, 08:23:26 PM
Quote from: thecfarm on August 25, 2016, 07:59:43 AM
Not to get this thread going the wrong way

That's OK. A lot of topics have been covered in this thread so far.. Harvesters, logging woes, credit cards, and now welfare bums who don't want to work. And junkies who steal from hard working folks....
What's next?

Alien abductions, worse yet.

How about some kind of sawmill operation during mud season?
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

danbuendgen


[/quote]
Alien abductions, worse yet.

How about some kind of sawmill operation during mud season?
[/quote]

Oh boy, lets not go down that rabbit hole, but I have been watching a lot of David Icke videos (and others) on youtube. Very entertaining, informative, borderline depressing and infuriating. Good to watch for anyone who want's to know whats really going on out there behind the scenes.....

We do a lot of firewood during mud season. I try to pile it up all winter, and we (me and my wife) split as much as possible, then sell it this time of year for seasoned wood. So far this month, we cut a truck and pup of pine (on quota) and finish out the rest of the week selling seasoned wood. Pays the bills ok, lots of it's in cash, and it splits up the monotony of chopping and skidding everyday.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

ETHURSTON

Quote from: Ed_K on August 16, 2016, 08:20:13 AM
The hills of Vt. are not something I'd want to run a wheeled machine on  ;D .

I run a wheeled harvester in VT. You can go anywhere a tracked machine can, as long as you have tracks and tire chains. A disadvantage to smaller tracked machine harvester is that you cannot cut downhill very easily as the machine will try to tip over. When cutting some hills with a dangle head it is much nicer to cut down hill. Most wheeled machines have a leveling crane base to give you plenty of swing power and cut both up hill and down hill.

danbuendgen

This is good advice. Thanks for the info and getting the thread back on track! I have decided when I make the move for a harvester, I want a Rottne 6 wheeler. I'm not against other brands of equipment, but I have the SMV now, so may has well have 2 similar machines that I can learn to know well.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

chevytaHOE5674

When you get to the point of a harvester I would look for an 8 wheel machine over a 6W. You get more stability, traction and better flotation. In steep ground the 8W will climb better and be more stable when reaching off to the sides for trees. Only downsides with an 8 wheeler are 2 extra tires and a little bit of a reduced turning radius.

danbuendgen

That is true about the 6 vs 8 wheels. 8 is better traction and stability, 6 seems a little more maneuverable, and less tires to keep going. However, my SMV has original tires on the rear and I bet at this rate, they could go another 10-20 years yet.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

1270d

I don't think we've ever worn out a forwarder tire.   Damage in the tread can be repaired and when the sidewall is cut badly they get replaced. 

If you have an option get a machine with balanced bogie axle(s).  They offer superior traction over traditional bogies.   My current harvester has traditional bogies and I wish almost daily that we had gotten balanced.   Some say they do not work as good in wet ground conditions but I found the opposite to be true.   

Also I don't find the 8 wheeled harvester climbs any better than the 6.  My 1270 was configured with one balanced bogie and single axle rear.  Was always run with tracks and chains on the rear.   Scorpion has unbalanced bogies on both ends and eco tracks on both ends.

Eight is more stable, six is more maneuverable, climbs as good and better in deep snow.  Would still get another 8w though

danbuendgen

Could you explain the difference in the balanced bogies and regular? Or how to tell the difference? What does my Rottne use?
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

1270d

With a regular bogie the walking part of the axle is free floating on the main bearing at all times.   For example when there is a high load like climbing a hill if traction is good the front tire can lift up and you'll spin out.  Or if you pull or push something they can wheelie like this.   

A balanced bogie somehow has a certain pressure driving the forward tire(in the direction of travel) downward keeping both tires in contact with the ground.   This helps a lot for hill climbing and rough ground.   It is a 15k extra per axle option when ordering a new Ponsse.

In my experience the balanced will not have an outboard planetary set inside the wheel.  Regulars will have a planetary hub.


1270d

I think this doesn't matter as much on the trailer end of a forwarder due to the weight of the load holding all tires to the ground.   On the front axle and on harvesters they lift pretty easily

danbuendgen

How many forwarder loads can a average harvester operator cut in a day?

Been looking at some Timberpro forwarder, where the grapple bucket can be switched out for a dangle head. Seems like a good idea. Then only one machine is needed. Seems like a good way to go for a one person show. Anyone out there have a Timberpro that is doing this? How do you like it? I like the 360 cab and crane swinging together. Very good design it seems.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

Ken

Quote from: danbuendgen on August 28, 2016, 07:30:43 PM
How many forwarder loads can a average harvester operator cut in a day?

Been looking at some Timberpro forwarder, where the grapple bucket can be switched out for a dangle head. Seems like a good idea. Then only one machine is needed. Seems like a good way to go for a one person show. Anyone out there have a Timberpro that is doing this? How do you like it? I like the 360 cab and crane swinging together. Very good design it seems.

Number of forwarder loads depends on a lot of factors.  Size of forwarder, length of trail, quality of wood, harvester operator skill, etc, etc.  Ponsse also has marketed a dual machine.  Hasn't caught on largely I thing due to the fact that you are taking a $150-200K harvesting head off the machine to forward wood.  Hard to justify. 
Lots of toys for working in the bush

danbuendgen

I understand there are many many factors in how many loads can get cut. I'm just looking for a rough average.
Husqvarna ~ TimberJack ~ Dodge Cummins

wannaergo

We almost bought a timberpro dual machine right when we started, but never pulled the trigger. The thing I don't like about them is that they are ginormous.  Also, visibility isn't great.  The downside to the ponsse dual is that the head is a tiny little thing. H5 I think. Wouldn't want to feed it a steady diet of hardwood. Ponsse makes a dang good machine though.

As to your production question, I would say most harvester operators like to put 8-10 forwarder loads on the ground per day. This depends a lot on the forwarder and harvester, but I have always wanted 10 a day. Our forwarder operator will put 6 cords on a load. I think the average operator will do around 40-50 cords a day.  That's in hardwood.
2016 Ponsse ergo 8w
2014 Cat 564
Husky 385

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