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Skidder vs. forwarder

Started by Atlantic Trader, March 02, 2013, 08:21:50 AM

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Atlantic Trader

Maybe this has been discussed before, but if you had only one to choose or say buy? What would you pick....i realize there are alot of variables that effect this decision ie: type of harvest, terrain, cutting methods, budget, etc

Any thoughts?

bushmechanic

No contest for me it would have to be a forwarder it just saves so much work.If you have a skidder then you have to have something else at the landing in order to sort and load,why not just have one machine?Another point is the timber comes out of the woods so much cleaner on a forwarder.Just my thoughts.

mad murdock

It would totally depend on the wood and geography. In the Midwest and northern boreal forests, some hills but not too much vertical terrain, most wood is sold in shorter lengths, a forwarder would take the top spot hands down.  Anywhere where the standard length logs are long, or the west- to PNW, a cable skidder, unless I was on real vertical ground, but still skidder-able, then a cat with winch. Only way a forwarder would be of use out here is if all you did was cut and mill your own wood, or precommercial thin, which is usually pulp and even then it goes on the truck at 20' lengths. Only forwarders that work in those instances are the newer large forwarders which cost boucu $$.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

grassfed

I went with a cable skidder and as a one man chainsaw felling operation I would do it the same way again. Skidders help build roads pushover hard to fell trees.

Having a cable to get through rough or wet spots helps me a lot. As far as the landing goes; your trucker should be able to work with you on the landing if you don't have anything else to use.

I top on my skidtrail or at the stump and I often limb with the skidder.
Mike

giant splinter

I have to agree with Mad Murdock, forwarders are very handy if you have shorter logs but if they are standard sawlogs the skidder is the best overall, a friend has a cat forwarder and it has the front blade, self loading rig, a powerful winch and he can even skid to a small degree but if it come to loading a good sized 33 foot saw log it is out of its league. I have seen him with a load on the back and a couple big logs dragging behind it pushing the limits if the job is on fairly flat ground and then hoist the big sawlogs one end at a time up onto the log truck.
Where you are the forwarder might be better and you can always hire or rent a skidder if you need one to get into the steep stuff. I am not sure if a High-Lead system would fit into your situation of not.
roll with it

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: grassfed on March 02, 2013, 12:16:31 PM
your trucker should be able to work with you on the landing if you don't have anything else to use.

UP here truckers will start charging by the hour if they have to sort on the landing or if they have to keep moving because you lack the ability to put up a pile of logs big enough that they have keep moving to get a full load.

Most of the small guys with cable skidders have an old slasher or loader on the landing to sort and make piles with to keep the truckers happy.

Bill_G

Sometimes around here even 100 ' of cable is not enough , not to mention the boulders and side hills .

thenorthman

Seems to me it would entirely depend on your markets and the dirt your working in, if your moving short logs (10-16's) on flat ground then a forwarder was built for that, if your pulling tree length or long logs (16-42's) then you would have some fun times just trying to snake that thing through the woods.  And seems like a forwarder would be extra tipy on steepish ground, especially with a full load on it.  For the PNW its rare to even see a forwarder in person, most everthing is long logged, and the majority is probably done on a highlead crew, so even skidders are a bit of a minority, and they are losing out to shovel logging and grapple cats.

With a skidder and long logs the pile doesn't need to be very tall, 4-5' and 12-20' wide (ish or so) and you got your self a load of logs and then some, its not like back east where you guys stack em up 10-20' tall, so you can't even see the loader from the other side of the pile... (well the big crews work like that but they move an impressive amount of wood in one day... and they are running some huge loaders...)
well that didn't work

treefarmer87

forwarders are great, one machine for everything. but I don't think there good on a hill.
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

barbender

Personally, I can't see how a forwarder would work around here very well unless you are behind a processor. It would be really slow to pick up wood that wasn't pre-bunched. There is no way to really answer your question without more specifics as to terrain, wood type, etc.
Too many irons in the fire

Corley5

Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

barbender

BTW, forwarders do just fine on hills, you just have to go straight up and down them for the most part. I believe there is a fair sized operation in Oregon running Ponsse machines in the mountains, just for example.
Too many irons in the fire

MDLogging

Been told a extention can be put on a 830 Timberpro and can hold a 55 foot  log.

cutter88

cable skidder and skid steer piling in the landing  ;D
Romans 10 vs 9 
650G lgp Deere , 640D deere, 644B deere loader, 247B cat, 4290 spit fire , home made fire wood processor, 2008 dodge diesel  and a bunch of huskys and jonsereds (IN MEMORY OF BARRY ROGERSON)

Meadows Miller

4TH Generation Timbergetter

jd540b

I have had both in the past.  Totally depends on terrain and the wood-every job is different.  One huge benefit with a forwarder is you can get away with a tiny landing.  But just stump cutting in the woods with a forwarder is very time consuming.  The best way i found to get production and make use of the forwarder was to hot yard to the forwarder in the woods with the skidder, and when the forwarder was full-take it to the yard and pile it.  Back to just a small buncher, skidder, and excavator w/pulp bucket to sort and pile in the yard.  Can't beat skidding whole tree for production around here.


craigc

We run a Rottne with a Huldtins grapple saw.  When we lay down trees we mark out the logs with paint and cut off any butt log to big to go through the grapple saw.  Occasionally we do have two jobs going and have the skidder and forklift alone on that job.  I always dread those jobs, hand bucking and dirty logs.  And as far as production we produce more on the forwarder job.  (Easier to buck in the woods, logs loaded directly on the truck no second handling plus loader is much faster than a wheel loader, cutter can stay in the woods all day no need to be at the landing.)
Rottne SMV, Timbco with Logmax 9000, JD 540B Grapple.

shinnlinger

Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

thecfarm

The guy that cut for me has a grapple and a forwarder,harvester too,but has not used that here as yet. He did a real nice job here. Twitch trails was not all torn up,ground disturbance was just about none where he just went with the forwarder. A few times a tree was cut  and he grabbed on to it and someone bucked it up as it was brought towards the forwarder. He used many of my trails that I used for my tractor too. And I was able to use them when he got done too. He used the grapple on some of my steep hills. His forwarder is a Fabtec and only a 4 cyd.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

thenorthman

Quote from: shinnlinger on March 03, 2013, 08:38:39 AM
Who says forwarders can't do hills?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo1_IalTEmk&feature=player_embedded

With a tie off sure, try it free hand... or side hill...  besides that unit would have been done with a yarder around here.

Does have an interesting fairlead and what looked like a winch winder thingy on i though.
well that didn't work

treefarmer87

I would like to have a forwarder with a grapple saw like craigc said. I like the c5 and c6 treefarmers, or a 230 timberjack. I would run one here, felling with my saw. keep the logs out the mud. one machine to look after. like cfarm says trails aren't tore up too. I could have bought a 230 forwarder in great shape for what I paid for my c6, it had a g prentice for  a loader and new 18.4 26s. I saw it a week after I got my c6 :-\
1994 Ford L9000
2004 Tigercat 718
1998 Barko 225
1999 John Deere 748G
FEC 1550 slasher
CTR 314 Delimber
Sthil 461
Sthil 250

snowstorm

i have been down hills in the 646 that the blade hit the ground loaded it wasnt a big deal. a 646 is a 6 wheel machine it will go places a little 440 jd could only dream of going

Atlantic Trader

A grapple saw that adds a whole other dimension to this, does anyone use one on say a tree farmer or timberjack forwarder, what are the costs, what are the limitations...

craigc

The huldtins saw cost about $15,000 about 5 yrs ago.  I think it will do 28".  I cannot say enough good things about it.  I have never had to touch it.  It adds an entirely new dimension to a forwarder.  If you have a branch in your way just cut it down.  If you have a creek crossing, ditch, wet spot grab some tops cut them down throw them on back carry them to the trouble spot.  Cut knots of of logs, cut down small trees, broken off trees the list goes on and on.  Would never have a forwarder with out one.
Rottne SMV, Timbco with Logmax 9000, JD 540B Grapple.

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