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cedar porch ceiling......seal?

Started by dablack, April 03, 2013, 10:32:08 AM

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dablack

I'm picking up some rough milled cedar from a local mill.  I'm going to be using it for the front porch ceiling.  The rest of the house siding will be stained wood.  What kind of seal or coating should I use on the ceiling.  I of course will be coating the wood before I put it up.  I will take some pictures and show the results.

thanks
Austin
Building my own house in East TX

Jay C. White Cloud

I would use exterior grade "landark" from Heritage Finishes.
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

dablack

That looks like really nice stuff but the price really hurts.  Any other ideas?
Building my own house in East TX

beenthere

A semi-transparent stain of the color of your choice. The ceiling is protected, but a fungicide in the stain will help prevent mildew/mold.

If price is an issue, then let us know what the limit is for you. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

dablack

Color of coice:  mostly clear.

About price.  If this Landark really is that great and I won't have to recoat for 8 years then sure, I think that is great and I will use it all over the house.  It looks like it is twice as expensive as the stuff at the Depot.  Is it twice as good?  I dunno. 

Basically, right now I'm acid staining the floor of the house I'm building right now.  After two coats of acid and a really good rinse I will be putting on the clear coat.  I will be stuck and not able to work inside until next week. 

I was hoping to at least be able to work on the porch ceiling while I'm stuck outside.  If the Ark stuff is that great, I will order it and wait on the porch ceiling, but I will be sitting on my hands all weekend.  If there is something I can pick up locally that is almost as good, then that would be better. 

I was thinking since the porch ceiling will never see day light that I wouldn't need any kind of UV protection but I agree a fungicide is in order. 

thanks
Austin
Building my own house in East TX

Jay C. White Cloud

Hmmm, all of my methods are more than the others cost wise I think, from what I can see, but it is an apples and oranges game.  Many of the less expensive finishes are mainly drying agents and very little "product." 

You could take Tim-Bor and spray the wood down, let it dry a few days to a week then just use Tung oil, may be thinned with citrus oil?
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Jay C. White Cloud

Hi Austin,

Sorry, missed that you had been writing.  It is more than twice as good, and it can be apply in all the traditional ways.  If you get a power sprayer it goes much farther.  Also, you can apply it with a bug sprayer with someone following you wiping with a rag.

I know it is probably too late, but we use it all most exclusive of other products, especially modern urethanes.  Urethanes work o.k. but when it's time to refinish, they are a pain in the back side.  We just use the landark, you can even clean with landark like you do with "murphy's oil soap" if you have a where area, you can't do that with urethanes.
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

dablack

Ok, then.  I will get the good stuff.  I want a nice finish that will last.  I will order the 5 gallon size of the landark.  Unfortunatly, that means I will be sitting on my hands.  I hate wasting time.  Especially since we are paying rent while we build the house. 

thanks
Austin
Building my own house in East TX

Lud

When I repainted my open porch ceiling last year I reached out to Envirochem in Walla Walla , Wash. for their antibug additive.  1 oz. to a gallon.  Used it when I built the porch  back 20 years ago and it kept the wasps and spiders to a absolute minimum.  Decided to use it again.......great stuff.  Good for soffits and peaks too.
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

hackberry jake

Dablack, where are you from?  Is this eastern cedar or western cedar? If it wont get any sun I would just put linseed oil on it.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Jay C. White Cloud

You know Dablack, Jake might have a real good point.  I just went to the site and looked and aged linseed and tung oil/gal and both are less expensive.  If it's not going to get direct sun, you could go that route, you would save about $15 to $20 per gal.  All their product is great quality.

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Tree Feller

If it's protected from sun and rain, why put anything on it? Linseed oil will darken it and may help preserve the red color a bit longer but the Cedar does not need it for protection.
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

dablack

I'm in East TX, and the build is around Rusk if you are familiar with ETX.  I have zero idea what kind of cedar it is.  There is a mill in Rusk called Wilcox that does cedar and other similar woods.  Nice place and nice people. 

True, I don't HAVE to put anything on it but I would like some sort of oil finish on it just to help.  It won't see any UV so I think I might be ok with just some tung or linseed oil.  I can get that locally so that will have me back working this weekend while I wait for the slab to dry. 

thanks guys.  Now that I'm to the stage of finishing the house, I'm sure I'm going to have tons of questions.

Austin
Building my own house in East TX

Jay C. White Cloud

Morn'n Dablack,

I was chatting this A.M. with another finisher, (earthen plaster and floors, oil finish) and they pointed out that even on a ceiling of a porch, especially down south, you could have a mold issue with of the shelf brands of linseed oil.  They have a lot of other additives, that is why they are less money.  Tung oil isn't as bad for molds, but still can.  Sorry to muddy the water for ya, but read the cans.  Maybe an exterior grade is still your best option.  I know often we just by it in bulk and used it both inside and out.

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

WDH

In East TX, if it is cedar, there is a 99.9% chance that it is eastern red cedar.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

dablack

Well, the boss pretty much made my mind up for me last night.  It is going to have to be something we can get locally and quickly.  She loves being up at the property and the kids do to.  So, I'm just going to have to run by the Depot or Low and see what I can find.  Some sort of penetraiting oil will have to do for now. 

We are building at the top of a hill and the porch faces the south so I'm hoping the wind will help with any mold problems. 

I promise to take pictures and post how it turns out.

Well, I added a pic of the property to my gallery but I can't figure out how to post it here.  HA!

thanks
Austin
Building my own house in East TX

Cedarman

Some of the people that have used our ERC have put a product called Sikkens on it. I would love to have a list of products that can be used on ERC both inside and outside and the plusses and minuses of each.  I would think a lot of people would find that list useful.
Those that know, tell me about Sikkens.
Thank You
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Jay C. White Cloud

Home Depot is doing better at keeping better quality oils in stock.  You should be fine.

Recommended oil
http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100203798?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=linseed+oil&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=100203798#.UV2H96KG2So

For clean up and thinning first coat to "wet the wood"
http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100113509?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=linseed+oil&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=100113509#.UV2H_KKG2So

Perhaps the first application with this
http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202454640?productId=202454640&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&MERCH=REC-_-nosearch2-5-_-NA-_-202454640-_-N#.UV2JB6KG2Sp

There is an old recipe of 3 parts Turpentine, 5 parts oil, and 1 part 20 mule team borax, as a traditional bug and mold inhibitor.  Borax and turpentine get mix first till dissolved, then the oil.

Regards,

jay
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Banjo picker

I have enough eastern red cedar for the celing of our new back porch, but I have been told the bumble bees will bore holes in it...is that true...Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

beenthere

Maybe carpenter bees, but doubt it would be bumble bees.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Jay C. White Cloud

Well Brother Banjo, that little fellow of the Hymenoptera clan, is a bothersome chap indeed.  Carpenter bee variants around the world, have been munching wood for nesting, and driving us wood lovers "buggy" since we humans started building them places that looked better than a dead limb. There are some great books on the subject and web site as well.  Pest control companies make lots of money off of them without doing too much.  It is one of the challenges that is better off handled by the homeowner.

Regards,

jay

http://www.carpenterbees.com/carpenter-bee-control.html
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Tree Feller

Quote from: dablack on April 04, 2013, 07:53:13 AM
I'm in East TX, and the build is around Rusk if you are familiar with ETX.  I have zero idea what kind of cedar it is.  There is a mill in Rusk called Wilcox that does cedar and other similar woods.  Nice place and nice people. 

True, I don't HAVE to put anything on it but I would like some sort of oil finish on it just to help.  It won't see any UV so I think I might be ok with just some tung or linseed oil.  I can get that locally so that will have me back working this weekend while I wait for the slab to dry. 

thanks guys.  Now that I'm to the stage of finishing the house, I'm sure I'm going to have tons of questions.

Austin

I'm in Tyler and very familiar with Rusk and all of East Texas. I was born here and have lived here all my life. I've also been to the Wilcox sawmill and yes, he saws primarily Eastern Red Cedar...lots of it.

I wouldn't use linseed oil. Mildew feeds on the fatty acids in linseed oil so mildew develops faster than if none had been applied. Like Cedarman, I've heard pretty good things about Sikkens Cetol as a clear finish but I've never used it. If your options are a locally sourced product, I think I would go with Helmsman's spar varnish. You can get it at the Home Centers, paint or hardware stores and it is relatively inexpensive. Being a spar (long oil) varnish, it will tolerate the seasonal movement that the wood will see outdoors.

Carpenter bees do indeed love Cedar but they aren't a problem if it is finished.
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

Jay C. White Cloud

QuoteCarpenter bees do indeed love Cedar but they aren't a problem if it is finished.
Paint, Oil, or even a heavy stain, and they will still chew right through it if there is no inhibitors mixed in the surface treatment.

QuoteI wouldn't use linseed oil. Mildew feeds on the fatty acids in linseed oil so mildew develops faster than if none had been applied.
Agreed, tung oil is better if using strait oil, or a blend like landark, but strait flax (linseed) oil works fine with the inhibitors applied.

"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

Cedarman

I have never seen bees bore into paneling as they need solid wood for their home.  2x4 etc and the 6x6 walls of our house must have a welcome sign up.

Thanks Jay for the info.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Jay C. White Cloud

Cederman, you brought up a good point, and one of interest.  Carpenter bees use chemoreceptors to identify rotting of "dead" wood.  As soon as we stack our boards off the mill, they begin the decay process.  Now that is isn't as bad as it sounds, as we all know we can slow that way down, (if not arrest it entirely) but the wood gives off an order that we can't smell, drawing the Carpenter bees in, as they smell the "dead" wood.  Solid barriers like a plastic or metal paneling can exclude them, but if they are attracted to a location, they will chew through even 10 mm (1/4") stock, just to see "what's what," and often crawl behind paneling to get to the wood they want... noxious little critters they are.
"To posses an open mind, is to hold a key to many doors, and the ability to created doors where there were none before."

"When it is all said and done, they will have said they did it themselves."-teams response under a good leader.

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