School me please on building some roads as a one time deal in KY. About a 100 ac property, maybe 15% - 20% kind of steep. What would be more stable for some logging road / recreational trail building - a tracked skid steer or a small dozer? The property owner (friend of mine) will be doing it himself and is capable of operating, but worried about the stability on the slopes. I thought that a dozer would be better for stability, but the skid steer would be more useful after the road project is done. Additionally, there are no time constraints on this... Thanks in advance for any help / opinions / stories....
Chuck
Depending on soil condition, rocks etc. I'd suggest the dozer to build the roads. The skid steer would be a better investment IF he is going to keep it for other uses. I have a small dozer and it's seldom used unless we get a blizzard, not user friendly as far as ride goes. There seems to be a market for used dozers so maybe use it to establish the roads then sell it and buy a wheeled skid steer or something that will maintain the roads better.
I would hire it done. Even if it cost a thousand dollars that's quite a savings over a skidsteer. A good dozer operator with a decent sized machine could build a trail in a day I would think. We run a 750 deere and can rough in a mile of woods road in a day.
Yes, I would also recommend having your single road need be built by a skilled contractor with the appropriate size dozer needed for road building in your terrain as being the more effective and efficient way unless you are going to have a reoccurring need for such equipment.
I bought a T870 with a dozer blade from bobcat this June... it weighs over 14,000 lbs (12,600 for the machine and 1800 for the dozer blade). I use it to do water bars after I am done, clean landings, load logs, spread and load rock, etc... If he is looking for a piece of equipment for multiple use, I would vote skid steer over dozer. I was told by the sales rep he tested the t870 against a small dozer and was much quicker and more manuverable. I have two speed on mine and I think it tops out around 10 mph, that is probably faster than any dozer as far as getting across your property. I have yet to do any serious road building, but it can certainly push, and stability on hills has not been an issue. I have been very comfortable with it. Currently have forks, grapple, bucket, and dozer blade. Next attachement will probably be a bush hog. You could also look at renting one to try out first.
One other thing to consider is a tractor with a blade. That is all my dad used for years for road building trails on our property. Just make sure has roll over protection.
BUT it is expensive to buy and let sit.... I agree if one time thing, it would be better to hire it done, but ongoing need for a piece of equipment is in the cards, then its a different game.
hire it done. One break down on the dozer and you are in the hole. I can run a dozer but I am not an operator. A guy who knows what he is doing runs rings around me. I just enjoy playing on it. LOL. When I need serious dozer work done I hire it done.
I'll vote on hiring it out. I've seen good operators getting fire line pushed around 100 acres and bmp work done in less than a full days work. At about $100 a tach hour ( our rates) , it would be considerably cheaper to have it hired out. But if he wants to do it himself I'd go with a dozer just based on weight alone ( if it's going to have to push larger trees or heavy blow down). We have a rayco skidsteer with 6 way blade, the horsepower is equivalent to many midsized dozers, but just doesn't have the weight behind it for any serious pushing.
Any serious grade, rock or ledges and your pushing a track skidsteer past what it should be used for. I use a 450G for 90% of my road work, and even that lacks sometimes. Unless youve got alot of seat time it takes a nack for putting in road, knowing how to roll material in for a base, alot comes into play. You can buy a decent older dozer for 10k, but 1-2 good break downs and add another 5-10k. Get a few quotes, better yet, any wood on it ? Hire a logger and trade him some wood for a road ? We do this all the time.
Im an operator /owner of three dozers and two tracked skidsteers. Ive done this all my life..Ive built miles of roads and the only machine choice for me is small dozer...450 size..they are made for it.I agree with the other guys.
Hire a good operator and it can be done so quick and so CLEAN..if hes good..you will come out on top.
I think right now small dozers are real fair priced to buy...but that's because the track loaders are killing the market..they are just that good..but not good for road building.
Invest in the compact track loader..you cant go wrong and the resale for them is huge.Just find a good dozer operator who fill treat you fairly and do a nice clean job..Youve all seen the mess a bad logger can make in the woods..Ive seen what bad dozer hands can do and its not pretty.
Thanks all for taking the time to reply. You've given me (us) some things to think about.
Appreciate your insight///.....
Chuck
Chuck, are you sure it's 15 to 20% grade? Or are we talking 15 to 20 degree slope?
Steep is a very tricky subject to convey to someone else if everyone isn't using the same terminology.
For example, this is about a 30 degree slope, or about a 58% grade.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12769/0907111050.jpg)
I don't have an example of a 20% grade, but around here that's considered pretty flat ground.
I have a 450b dozer, a T-320 Bobcat, and the FTX-90 Fecon pictured above.
The Bobcat is pretty stable up to about 40%.
The 450 and FTX-90 are limited by the engine's ability to pick up oil in the crank case, and the operator's nerve, and experience.
I'm going to go along with the folks who recommend hiring someone reputable to do the roads, and trails. For example, last week I did 2500' of 7 to 8' wide trail to the top of a ridge on 30 to 40% grade in 4 hours with my 450b. This ground wasn't too rocky, but I did have to roll a few 2' rocks out, and several stumps.
That thing will just chew itself up the hill. :)
Nice toy redprospector
Quote from: lopet on September 15, 2014, 07:01:23 PM
That thing will just chew itself up the hill. :)
Nice toy redprospector
Thanks,
I just wish my "toys" weren't so expensive to own and maintain. :o