Question about Red Oak maturity

[RPowers]

I've been doing some reading about oak trees and forest management and succession, particularly because various forms of "Oak Decline" are killing a bunch of my trees. I keep seeing that Red Oaks are not as long lived as the Whites, and can actually become overmature fairly early as a timber tree. These Ozark hills have been  repeatedly logged for the last 100+ years in most areas, and aside from protected yard trees, a 22"  or larger red oak is pretty large. I have several on my place in the 20-24" DBH class, and was intending to let these biguns grow for the grandchildren. After reading about Red oaks and old age problems like hollow hearts, I am wondering if there is a way to monitor these trees, because if they begin to show signs of timber quality declining, then I'd much rather have alot of nice wood than a hollow shell of a living tree that is 30 years older. So, foresters and sundry experts, how old/big is a mature red oak in the Ozarks? What signs do they show when they start declining in quality? I'm attaching a pic of the base of a nicer tree, about 21" DBH on the scaling stick. There seems to be a small vertical rift in the bark with staining near the base, is this an indicator of internal rot? The tree otherwise seems to be in good health with a full crown. I'm also attaching a few other pics of the area around this tree so your critical eyes can suggest to me anything I need to note about the forest condition. This is on a gentle NE slope. 

  

  

  

  

 

The last pic is of one of my nicest White Oaks that just suddenly wilted this summer. It looked great early in the year and now just kaput. I cannot see any sign of lightning damage or anything, there might be some bark damage high on the trunk in the pic. Should I just cut this one down? It is 23" DBH, and a really nice looking tree, any chance of it coming back next year after just wilting down mid=summer?  Thanks , RP

[beenthere]

and was intending to let these biguns grow for the grandchildren.

I have some of those mature red oak that were huge when I bought this place almost 50 years ago. At that time a forester wrote a plan that included taking those big over-mature oak down.
I did take a few down and converted them to firewood. Hearts were rotten. The others I left there.
Since then have had at least two management plans approved that both said to take those mature oak out of there. I didn't.

Today, I have a dozen big red over-mature red oak that my grand children can see and enjoy if they want to, as they are impressive in the forest mixed stand. They will likely out live the white ash that I've been vigorously managing for the last 50 years.

SO, just saying if you want them for your grand children then I think I'd say don't cut them down. Turn some other red oaks into lumber to make things for the grand children to enjoy that way, but let them see the big red oak.   Just sayin........
8)

[WDH]

Decline usually shows up in the bark.  The split and staining are tell-tale signs.  Staining on the bark indicates heart rot.  I believe that your white oak is toast, especially if the ambrosia beetles have found it (sawdust at base of tree).

[RPowers]

Thanks for the replies.

beenthere, I think I'd rather use the forest resources (soil, water, light) for growing better quality trees than let some sub-quality old-timers grow. That happens alot in the logging here, and then you end up with chunks of woods being suppressed by a handful of gnarled hollow trees. I have several of those on my place that the loggers have skipped through time. They are going to come down and have well-managed seedlings planted in the holes. I might leave one somewhere for future years to look at, but on my limited space (29 acres) it is more about managing for quality and usefulness. Maybe there can be asthetics in the mix too. There are quite a few young R/W oak, maple, cherry, and walnut under these big trees, so if they will benefit from taking the big oaks out, providing that the big oaks aren't gaining much/any value by leaving them, then it is a cut-n-dry situation for me.

WDH, that is what I am afraid of. I will be monitoring for beetle signs, and if I see any this fall it will be coming down. This is about 15' from that big cherry that I posted about with the lightning split down the side, so this hillside is loosing some really big trees this winter, and I'm gaining some (hopefully nice) lumber. :/

Thanks again.

[mesquite buckeye]

I cut a red oak 2 years ago, a forked near the ground one that was showing seepage along the crack. The butt log was filled with wetwood (very stinky), the base at the stump was starting to rot. I feel like if I had waited another 5-10 years, a lot of the butt log, which was mostly clear lumber by the way, would have gone to waste. As it is, most of the wood was good, although it checked a bit during drying.

Yours looks like an old, overgrown catface. These are great spots for rot or wetwood to enter the tree. As yours is already seeping, I would expect at the very least wetwood. Cut it or lose it.

The white oak is gone. Use it or lose it. Expect a catface on one side. Looks like an old lightning strike running all the way up. Most of it should be good though. ;D

Looks like you will be getting lots of nice lumber. Better sharpen up the woodworking equipment. ;D 8) 8) 8)