DOT Number

[ET]

I had a custom sawing job last week which took me out of State. This was my first away job this far from home. One of the workers at the job site asked me about my DOT certification. I said "what you talkin about Willis?"  Anyway this got me thinkin and I certainly dont want any trouble with the Law and I want to do it the right way.

I have a 10-30 Lucas and I can saw 40' timbers which gives me a nice niche. All of my mill fits in my 2500 RAM. I work out of my 70ac farm (zoned ag) and saw as a side income to the farm. Do I need any commercial registrations or DOT numbers?

I used the "search" but found nothing. Hope some of my fellow FF members have already been down this road to help me.

Thanks, Ernie

[hardtailjohn]

I would say no... because you aren't hauling the mill "for hire" or compensation. It's incidental to the mill's operation.  I  could be wrong, but I can't see it ever being an issue. I would go just the way you are and if anything ever came of it, I'd worry about it then! (I've had a DOT # for 25+ years for my trucks....)
John

[chevytaHOE5674]

This would be a question for your local DOT office. If your GVW is over 10,001lbs, vehicle crosses state lines, and is used to make you money then most likely you should have DOT numbers. Along with those you will probably need all the other stuff that goes along with operating a CMV.

[Tom the Sawyer]

ET,

I just went through the DOT process and there is a thread in the Business section about what I had to do:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,72871.0.html 

Elements of the definition of a commercial motor vehicle (subject to USDOT) are the size of your vehicle and "whether you transport persons or property in furtherance of commerce."  The vehicle size is based on the GVWR of your vehicle, or vehicles in combination.  That limit is 10,000 lbs. so if the GVWR of your truck exceeds 10,000 lbs. then you meet that element.  Check the sticker inside the door of your truck.  If you don't haul a trailer then that will be the determining factor.  If you haul a trailer (or a portable mill) they add the actual weight of the mill/trailer to the GVWR of your truck and if they are over 10,000 lbs. then it applies to you.

I brought up the "transports persons or property" element and was told by the Kansas Highway Patrol that "property" would include your own property or tools.  I have heard it interpreted both ways but USDOT oversees interstate transportation.  Intrastate is usually under a different, and sometimes more stringent, set of rules.  I operate both intra and interstate so I had to comply with both.

There is a provision for businesses where transportation is "incidental" to the operation of the business, sort of a tools of the trade exemption but I was told that it only applied to interstate and that my state's intrastate regulations did not recognize that exemption.

Those points are assuming that you are not transporting hazardous materials or passengers which opens an even bigger can of worms.  There are hundreds of pages of regulations to consider.  It is much better to know how and why you are exempt (if you are) than to just hope that you don't get stopped.

[luvmexfood]

To each his own but I would not open the can of worms of getting any paperwork. After all, you are just hauling your sawmill to cut some lumber for a friend's friend. And he is only paying your expenses. Hint. Hint.

[Autocar]

I agree one hundred percent with luvmexfood if you ask your regret it, nothing but a pain.

[chevytaHOE5674]

Paying your expenses could probably be classified as compensation. DOT has issued tickets to guys going to/from tractor shows and pulls because there is the possibility of winning a ribbon, certificate, or trophy and that it is considered compensation thus needed a DOT number and all the associated stuff.

So your just hauling the mill to a friends house to cut lumber with no compensation of any kind, not ever lunch.  ;)

[red oaks lumber]

like iv'e said many times before... the less they know about you the better your life will be

[Banjo picker]

Exactly!!!

[Tom the Sawyer]

ET,

From the information I found on the net, the GVWR for your Ram 2500 is 8800 lbs.  If you haul your equipment in the truck (no trailer) then you are below the 10,000 lb. limit and you should not need a USDOT #.  Keep in mind that pretty much any trailer, even an empty 16' utility trailer, would put you over the limit.

[ET]

Thanks for everyones input especially Tom TS. I will check inside my door tomorrow. I could load the mill up and drive to the local elevator to get an exact weight.   Bummer, just trying to make a buck and look at all the trouble one can get into without even trying.

[ET]

 

 
This is my GVWR, (8,800 lbs) so I fall outside.  I believe my mill with all its parts probably weigh less than 1,000 lbs but I will need to check.  You put 2 people, (me and my wife) plus all our gear, I bet we would be close to actual 10,000 lbs. 

I normally have my gas tank on the mill full plus I carry an additional 5 gal of gasoline on board.  It looks like I will need to not carry any gas in the tank, nor carry a spare gas can, nor have any oil in the engine or otherwise I would be considered hazardous. 

If any others have experience dealing with all this please chime in.
Ernie

[Ianab]

The GVWR is the maximum loaded weight for that truck, not the empty weight.
Empty it probably weighs  more like 6,000 lb? So you can load on maybe 2,800lb of passengers, fuel, tools, sawmills, hound dogs etc before you are overweight.

If it had a GVWR of more than 10,000lb, that gets you into the DOT class, even if it's almost empty, and under that weight at the time.

Ian

[Tom the Sawyer]

ET,
Ianab is correct in that the 8800 lbs. is the GVWR, the most the vehicle can legally weigh when loaded, fueled and occupied.  An internet source said the curb weight for a 2006 Ram 2500 4x4 diesel should be 6326 lbs. Depending on configuration yours will vary a little bit.  The difference between that and 8800 lbs. is your maximum payload (including passengers and fuel).

For purposes of USDOT, they use the GVWR of the truck plus the actual weight of anything that you tow.  So if you don't tow anything then they should use the 8800 lbs., which is below the threshold.  GAWR is the maximum weight on each axle, to prevent you from having an unbalanced load.  If you tow you should also be aware of your GCVWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating) - should be listed in your owner's manual.

As others have mentioned, some states are more stringent than USDOT and your state might consider you to be a commercial motor vehicle although you would be exempt under USDOT's definition.  PITA

Hazardous material placarding for fuels applies to larger amounts, something like 100 gallons or more.  If USDOT considers you a commercial motor vehicle then there is a classification under hazardous materials for transporting internal combustion engines (mowers, mills, tractors, generators, etc.) [Class 9 HazMat, Non-Bulk], which by itself does not trigger CDL, placarding and a bunch of other requirements normally associated with "HazMat".

[ET]

Thank you Tom, you really have brushed up on all this. Sounds like I should be okay then. Crossing State lines may be iffy. I went into Ky for that job last week, and I could be called back. Is anyone familiar with anything I should be aware of in the bluegrass Country?

[woodmills1]

There are federal regulations for any vehicle  or trailer over 10,000 pounds GVW

Actual weight causes other problems as in fines for over your GVW


DOT number is needed for commercial truck over 10,000

CDL is needed for truck over 26,000 or truck and trailer combo over 26,000


and check the weight ratins on your tires cause that rules you max capacity
ask why I know that

[shelbycharger400]

just for giggles,   my 96 ram 4x4 1/2 ton auto is 5200/5300 at the dump with around 1/4 tank and prob without my chains , cables ect would weigh around 5000.