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New and looking for advice.

Started by Terracar, February 13, 2014, 07:09:18 PM

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Terracar

Hello guys and gals.

I am Joe and live in SW Washington. I am finally going to pull the trigger on a chainsaw. We have 1.5 acres that beside a mediocre back yard is primarily wooded. It is moderately wooded. With my son getting closer to the age of outdoor domination, the wife and I really want to clear more of the property.

The trees are (so I am told) Douglas Firs that most are 50+ft tall. The ones I intend on felling myself are up to 20" in diameter. Any more than that I will bring in a crew to do it. I will be felling, limbing and bucking the lumber.

I am hoping to get input from the forum to help make a decision on two of the main items: Chainsaw and the chaps.

I used the Stihl website to determine what saw I should get. Well the selections really point you one way or the other without the option to really match what you are actually using the saw for.

So here is the saw will be facing:

Usage: 2-3 times a month for 2-3 days at a time (about 12-15 hour days) Spring/Summer minimal winter for downed trees/branches.

Size: up to 20" diameter; 50ft+ tall

Recommended saw from Stihl site based on inputs: MS-211-C-BE. I am wondering if I should step up to a Farm Boss saw though. Though it appears the Farm Boss 290 is no longer available.

The only reason I prefer Stihl is dealer/service is local and they have some of the manufacturing locally in Oregon.

Thank you in advance for your input and advice.

-Terracar




-Terracar

thecfarm

Terracar,welcome to the forum.
I myself would go to the dealer you mentioned and say what you just posted, Chaps and all. He'll want to set you up with a hard hat unit too. Or I hope he does. That will be hard hard,face shield and ear muffs. If you don't seem to like them,find another dealer. Dealer support is VERY handy. Buy your saw from a dealer and he will be there when you need him. Steel boots are good to have too. Wedges you will need too. If never cut trees,classes or someone that knows what they are doing should really be your first and most important thing. People have got hurt,just beacuse they have no idea. And some have got hurt and killed because they knew what they was doing too.
What's all the trees going to be used for?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ianab

Just checked online and I see the MS211 is a mighty 35 cc beast. Now I'm sure it would be able to gnaw though a 20" fir tree eventually, but it would be a bit frustrating, and you would need to make cuts from both sides of the log a lot of the time.

I'd suggest going up to the Farmboss range. MS291 or 311, 55 / 60cc, able to run a 20" bar etc and good reliable saws.

Like Cfarm says, do you know anyone that can give you some practical instruction. The trees you have sound straight forward enough to handle, as long as you know what you are doing.  :)

Also, get a basic sharpening kit with the saw (file and guide), and get the dealer to show you how it works. Doesn't matter how good the saw you buy is, once the chain gets dull, it's useless. And being a beginner, it's likely you will get the bar in the dirt, and dull it quickly.  ;) This isn't a problem, as long as you can sit down, take a breather, and sharpen in 5 minutes.

Ian

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Terracar

Thanks for the input guys.

In terms of the wood, I use it for bartering with my friends for services I cannot perform or am too lazy to do. So for roughly $500 in services to fell 3 40" diameter 65ft tree I was able to barter the wood for about $2k in repair work from a friend who is a GC.

I have some additional projects for him and some electrician buddys, so a way I can reduce the cost is having wood at the ready.

Yeah I already have the list of things I need/want, I did not want to clutter up the post with them though.

In terms of practical instruction, yes most of my friends are experienced in felling and cut/buck/split 3+ cords on average for winter season. I typically help load the rounds and split on occasion.

Here is my list currently:

Chainsaw
Protective chaps/apron (9layer)
Gloves
Hardhat/faceguard/ear protection (Forestry all-in-one)
Bar oil
wedges
Cant hook or Peavey (optional) - Figure will make moving the logs/rounds a bit easier.

My understanding is for boots that it is a steel-toed boot. Is this correct? As in nothing special?

-Terracar
-Terracar

JohnG28

You can get boots with cut resistant material in them as well. If you are planning to buy new boots anyway I'd take a look at these. When I get another new pair of boots they will have this.  BTW, if you are not used to it, days out cutting can get really long really fast. You mention 12+ hr days. Don't push it, that's when bad things happen and people get hurt.
Stihl MS361, 460 & 200T, Jonsered 490, Jonsereds 90, Husky 350 & 142, Homelite XL and Super XL

Maine logger88

I agree with John I log full time and work 6 or 7 hour days and am plenty tired after that most of the close calls I have had is when I'm pushing extra hard and try to get in a few more hours
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

Fedge

You'll need way more saw than the 211. I would think that you would want something at least 50cc. I've run my Dad's Farm Boss a few times. I was not impressed. I think you could more bang for your buck out of Echo or Dolmar, for example. Whatever you buy, make sure you have a good dealer. Just because they sell saws does not make them a dealer.

Try not to buy too big of saw either. A saw that weighs 3lbs more at the start of the day weighs about 100lbs more by lunch. It was mentioned above that when you are tired, you are more likely to get injured.

A lot of guys wear chaps but I actually prefer the protective pants. I primarily work in cedar and it is very brushy. It seems like the branches hook on the chap straps. I find it annoying and a little more dangerous.

Good luck with your project!

Geoff
A smart man knows a lot, a smarter man knows what he doesn't know.

M_S_S

I moved to northeast Cal about 5 years ago(had cut firewood commercially in the past), bought 2 50cc homeowner saws with 20 inch bars. They worked great(both Huskys) until last year I started cutting wood for sale again. I gave one of those saws to my son and bought a 60cc saw and a 85 cc saw. I use my 450 Husky for limbing now. I would get at least a 60 cc saw for the size of wood you intend to cut. In fact I would buy a 50cc saw as a back up. Lol never go into the woods without a second saw. ED
2- 562xp 24"bar
         576xp 28"bar
         385xp 28" and 32" bars
         25 ton Speeco
         6600 Ford
         02 Dodge diesel
         73 Ford 250

Andyshine77

MS261 end of story. It costs more, but it's the type of saw that you can hand down to your son, and maybe even his son. That's the way I look at tools anyway, sure a farm boss will do the job, but not as well or as long.
Andre.

HotRail

I'm with Andy77, go with a 261cm...18" or 20" .325 should handle that softwood plenty good enough.  No need to worry about tuning the carb with the Mtronic.

Tom King

I third the 261, but also suggest getting a 180.  I know you're just talking an acre and a half, but I wouldn't want less.  Don't jerk on the saw when you get one hung up.

mad murdock

Personally I would look for a Dolmar/Makita, or a Husky, definitely 60-70cc range, that way if you want to CSM it is doable, and you can gear up in CC to do more of that or go for a band mill. Besides the PPE, I would get a good axe, and a wedge pouch/belt to carry as a kit bag when you are out cutting, felling. Welcome to the FF!
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

7sleeper

Hello and welcome Terracar,

contrary to many recommendations made up to now the facts stay the same you DON'T need a pro saw! All these recommendations are totally out of reality with your profile. For cutting a few times per year who cares if you happen to need a few seconds longer in a cut!? A sharp chain will make more difference than the saw model! For the money saved compared to a pro saw you can buy a lot of stuff and be already way ahead cutting a bunch of wood.

What do I believe will be that you need?
Well a saw in the 40-50 cc range will be more than sufficient.

What would I recommend?
Any name brand out there. Top of my list would be a Dolmar 421(built like a pro saw made for the homeowner, only 42 cc but behaves like 50!) then a Stihl 251/271, Husqvarna 445/450, Mc Culloch PP5020(best deal out there at the moment by far if the prices are still under 2 bills!), etc.
There is very little that can go wrong if you stay with the name  brands and a correctly set carb. Name brands would be Dolmar=Makita, Echo=Shindaiwa, Efco=Oleo Mac, Husqvarna=Jonsered=Mc Culloch=Partner, Tanaka=Hitachi, Solo and Stihl.

So there is a lot of great gear at great prices out there.

For chaps Labonville gets very high praises as far as I have read and the price is supposed to be right.

Good luck!

7

Red Good

I have a 211 and as much as I like it it is too small a saw for me here , and am hunting a 60 cc saw . I don't cut a lot or often but when I do it seems hard on the 211 . Broke the clutch bearing and it spit bits out and has damaged the plastic body at the oiler . I like the saw just not up to bigger stuff . Red
Stihl 211C saw
Massey 135 deisel tractor with a front loader
Can Am 800 max quad
2001 Chev S10 pick me up
Home made log arch

H 2 H

I'm just up I-5 from ya

A good 50 cc saw will do the trick for ya



The one pictured above runs a 18" 3/8's b/c
Brian

Old BROWN eyes strikes again !

"Saw troll speaks with authority about saws has never even touched. Well maybe he touches the pictures in the brochures before he rips on them"

".... guess you need to do more than read specs, and look at pictures !"

luvmexfood

I can't offer any better advice on saws. One thing I can say. Don't know if 12 to 15 hour days are possible. It's pretty hard work. Drink what you think is enough fluids and then somemore.

There are some good videos on youtube from Canada about falling timber. Actually used in chainsaw training but for the life of me right now I can't remember the name. Also search back on this topic in chainsaws and some excellent diagrams were posted about a couple of months back.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

joe_indi

Joe to Joe:
Hi!
:laugh:
I would 2nd what 7sleeper has suggested.To be more precise a MS250 would do very nicely.

Joe

Terracar

Thank you everyone for the input.

I think I will re-evaluate my needs based on the feedback.

Excellent points brought up about the length of work time and the potential for mishaps. I am thinking in terms of me loading the rounds... and I can certainly see how the saw work is more safety critical.

Also good point about chaps vs full pants and brush. My property has a large amount of brush, though I intend on clearing it before the tree is downed.

I think tonight I will walk the property to reassess the average size of the trees. I know the ones I am chomping at the bit to down are on the 15-20" side, but I figure those will still have to wait until I am comfortable with the saw and my abilities.


Anyone in WA/OR that knows the Dolmar dealers? I went to their Dealer locator and then to the dealer sites and it appears that none even mention Dolmar or Makita. Is Dolmar a newer brand? Lesser know or? I figure I will give them a call at lunch to get some input on Dolmar. Based on the information on the website they appear to be a robust saw. Though from me, that holes about as much water as a sieve.

-Terracar
-Terracar

gologit

Take a drive up to Madsens in Centralia/Chehalis.  They'll have everything you need, top to bottom. If you go there and tell them what you have planned they can outfit you and they won't try to sell you a bunch of crap you don't need.
They have every Husky and Stihl saw that's made on display and they're available to try out before you buy. Madsen's is also a servicing dealer if you need parts or repairs.  The pros shop there.

The Dolmar saws are okay but there's not much dealer support for them on the left coast.

Your list of stuff is good but don't forget a bottle of rubbing alcohol to clean the pitch off . :D
Semi-retired...life is good.

mad murdock

Sachs Dolmar has been making saws almost as long as Stihl, they have were bought by Makita of Japan, but I think the saws are still made in Germany, some of the models are Makita, some are Dolmar.  They are very good saws, and you dont pay the name brand "penalty", like you do when you buy a new Stihl (just my view on the subject).  I live in NW Oregon, I have done a lot of logging on my own tree farm here, and as a full time pro logger in Northern Wisc, UP Mich.  I would not use a saw smaller than 50cc, I like the 70CC saws with compression release, easier starting, and even though your target trees are 15-20" a little longer bar saves the back, as in you dont have to bend over as much.  I would get a saw that can wield a 24" bar with authority, and outfit it with full skip chizel tooth chain of your choice.  Baileys sells Makita/Dolmar, as well as farm/Ranch Husky through the mail, at least you can look on their website and compare saw specs, model to model.  Another personal preference, is though I have bought new saws in the past, I prefer to look for used saws, as I can fix them myself, and it opens up the options for what saws I want to target vastly, as there are tons of really good used saws out there, for way cheap.  If you want to learn how to fix one, check out your local CL for chainsaws, and see what there is in your area, might get a good saw for very little $$, and if you don't like it, you can alwasy spend the $$ on a new one.  Echo is another manufacturer of good saws that should not be overlooked, IMO.
Good luck, and work safe.  Always wear a good hardhat in the woods!
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Oliver1655

Welcome to the Forum!

Dolmar was a German company & has been around since 1927.  In 1991 IIRC, they were bought out by Makita.  They make a good saw, just not a lot of name recognition in the states although that is slowly changing.

I would get a saw in the 50-60cc range for the felling / bucking & look for a running used 35-45cc with a 14" bar for limbing & as a back up.  Being relatively new, is highly likely you will pinch your saw & would benefit by having the 2nd saw to cut it free.  Even those of us who have been cutting for years will occasionally read a tree wrong, be tired & just a little too slow in removing a saw from a cut while bucking, ..., and pinch a saw.

For your second saw look for an older saw that runs.  They will typically be around $50-75.  If possible, remove the muffler & using a flashlight, look at the cylinder wall / piston for scoring while slowly pulling the starting cord. Compression between 130 & 15o psi is what you are looking for. Higher would be better but not likely to be found in an unmodified saw.

If working on your 1.5 acre land is the only cutting you intend to do, you will run out to trees to cut long before you would wear out a homeowner's saw.  You don't even have to buy a new saw.  There are a lot of older saws still going strong.  They may be a little slower or a little heavier, but you have to go with a "PRO" level saw to get the best weight to cc ratio.

I have 56cc Stihl S-08s, 1960-70's saws I still use.  They do not have chain brakes, rpms are around 7,000 and they are top handles but they have great torque in the wood.  Just stay alert & don't hurry.

Have fun!
John

Stihl S-08s (x2), Stihl S10 (x2), Jonsered CS2139T, Husqvarna 338XPT California, Poulan Microvibe XXV, Poulan WoodShark, Poulan Pro 42cc, McCulloch Mini-Mac 6 (x2), Van Ruder Hydraulic Tractor Chainsaw

Andyshine77

The man has 1.5 acres, he doesn't need a 70cc felling saw with 28" bar. I have experience and own saws in every cc size, and I use my 346 more than any other saw I have. The 346 is 50cc like the ms261. I've ran several 261's and they pull a 20" b&c just fine, and it's a well built tool, that can cut hundreds of cords of wood a year if needed.
Andre.

7sleeper

And he can cut hundreds of chords a year with a semiPro/farmer saw like the Dolmar 510, Husqvarna 450, Stihl 270/271, etc. And save a bunch of money in the beginning. But then again as far as I understood he doesn't want to! He only has 1.5 acres to take care of and intends to remove only a few trees. With that size of property and intended use he could buy a Wildthing and still be sufficiently armed! This here sure sounds like some guys recomending a porsche cayenne to drive to the mall to get a quart of milk.... ::)

7

Ianab

A ms261 would certainly get the job done. But I dont think you even need a pro grade saw like that. The 291 or 311 will work just as well and you will never wear it out with only 1 1/2 acres.
Dolmar make good saws but they dont have such a good dealer network in the US.
The other main brands also make good saws, but OP said he had a goos Stihl dealer locally so thats where I would send him.

BTW its easy enough to take down 36"  dia trees with a20" bar. But if you are doing it all the time, you probably need more saw.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Andyshine77

Some people value high quality, others could care less as long as it gets you from A to B. I tend to always buy the best of the best, others do as well, so that's what I always suggests. The OP is free to make up his own mind, it's his money. I'm also free to spend my money on whatever I want, need isn't always apart of my purchasing decisions.
Andre.

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