Wide Mill Build

[charles mann]

Only that you'll be closer to the dust, it'll be put into the wind blowing around right in front of you. Not a big deal really but would have thought away from operator would be better. As said you've got your dogs or stops out of sight whichever side you stand

Keeping an eye on them stops is more important than me not wearing the proper PPE. Plus every WM iv seen is chuting out the operator side and the operators seem to deal with it just fine. Plus got some 4' 4" flexible spiral wrapped high temp heater duct hose i can use to help direct the dust closer to the ground for the higher cuts. 
Weather has been miserable today and standing on a wet 5" sq tubing with a walking boot aint the best choice. Looks like im sol for the next couple days. Nothing but crap weather. I hate having surgery, but this time, its yielding me ample time to drive forward on this build. 

[Crusarius]

I actually think on version 2 I will also be on the sawdust side. with the sawdust on the opposite side it seems to blow in my face more. My thought is if i am on  the same side there is a good chance that the sawdust will blow but be low enough it will not be in my face.

[JoshNZ]

Can always get a buddy to monitor the operator side and push from the dust chute side, see what happens. I prefer the idea of the engaged/exposed bands energy pointed away from me either way. I get a fair bit of dust blowing up in my face too, would depend on the day and what the wind is doing I think. A mask is def the easy answer!

[charles mann]

Can always get a buddy to monitor the operator side and push from the dust chute side, see what happens.

don't have buddies until they need something from me, and i prefer it that way most of the time. 99.999% of everything that happens at my 2 land locations is done by me. step brother is as useful as teats on a boar hog when it comes to land maint, but enjoys living on the land for free and then its difficult to get the wife away from her dang electronics, let along outside chores when I'm at work for 2 wks. i deff don't get much help out of her in this mill build, and when real work starts after its built, ill only see her if i go in the house. but i will deff see her when the $$$$ comes in from the sale of the slabs. 
the plus side, i get peace and quiet and she is supportive of me buying a crane truck to load the logs on the mill and to rescue downed ones from the firewood piles. 
crane truck

[JoshNZ]

Lol sounds like a good arrangement =/.

It actually wouldn't be hard to change the operator side would it. Fairly late in the peace in your build mill. Tighten the throttle lever up so it stays in place then push from both sides, see what you prefer before wiring and welding controls/handles etc

[charles mann]

Lol sounds like a good arrangement =/.

It actually wouldn't be hard to change the operator side would it. Fairly late in the peace in your build mill. Tighten the throttle lever up so it stays in place then push from both sides, see what you prefer before wiring and welding controls/handles etc

throttle engagement is electrical, using an high idle solenoid and all the other gages and such are all electrical, so either side will work, just add a few feet of wiring to move the control box that isn't even built yet, to 1 side or the other. 
only issue will be belt engagement, unless i use a linear actuator to lift the motor or push/pull on a flat belt idle pulley. 

[Hoopty5.0]

Just wanted to say it was nice to meet you the other day and this mill is incredibly impressive. I'll keep an eye on the updates. Thanks again for the pecan

[charles mann]

Just wanted to say it was nice to meet you the other day and this mill is incredibly impressive. I'll keep an eye on the updates. Thanks again for the pecan

it was great meeting you too. ill keep an eye out in my area for more "free" woo that is to small for me to mess with and drop it off to you when i have a job in that area.

[charles mann]

RH tensioning and idler sprockets








Had to hang test a UHMW rub block to help take stress off the outer sprockets that are attached to the tensioners. I think i'll work. Im gonna run the sawed all the way to the top and see if the block will interfere with the blade guards, that are not even built yet. but i can guesstimate where the guards will sit. 
 



basically the same as the right side. The plans called for only 1 side to apply tension, but i planned for such issues and decided to make both outer brackets to adjust. at full "IN", i was 1 dang link off. iv got 2 quick links together, so when i tear it all down to clean and paint, ill bust a link out somewhere else already marked and move the quick link. 



i reconnected the couplings so they would engage the lift rods and lift the sawhead with the band wheels installed. it took 18 ftlbs of force to keep it moving and 20 ftlbs to to start movement. 

tomorrow will be spent getting the carriage lifted off the mill bed and turned 180° so i can access the back of everything and get the carriage under cover and still be able to work, plus get the eng yarded out of the cart, using the existing cart frame as an eng stand, and possibly weld it to the sawhead. 

please provide +/- criticism of this lifting system. 

[Crusarius]

looks like your running 2 separate motors for lifting? If that is true are you concerned about one side lifting more than the other? Or do you have them connected somehow?

[Vautour]

.... looks good nice work .. if your installing that diesel, acme rods were probably your best bet for lifting that weight...  

[charles mann]

looks like your running 2 separate motors for lifting? If that is true are you concerned about one side lifting more than the other? Or do you have them connected somehow?

They are connected with chain

[Crusarius]

ok. figured they were but didn't see it.

[charles mann]

.... looks good nice work .. if your installing that diesel, acme rods were probably your best bet for lifting that weight...

as of now, yea, i think I'm "stuck" with with this lil cummins. but on the vertical shaft/horz mill topic, someone said attach a genny and go elec. i think that'll be next my next upgrade. get a 30k mil genny, already 3ph and 1ph, so i can power a 240 and 120v ac motors, and set the genny on the back like i was gonna do when i had plans of going complete hyd. plus once this build is done, have a lil spare money/time for a project auto, I'm gonna start a chop top 20s-30s era build and install the cummins in it, so, ill have to find an alt power plant means for the mill. i think elec might fit that bill.

[Hoopty5.0]

I think that's a great idea to go electric and would solve a lot of weight and/or clearance issues.

[charles mann]

OMG, for only 20ft lbs of tq required to lift the system as it sits, my air ratchet with 60ft lbs of tq struggled/stalled trying to power raise, my IR 1/2" impact said NO!!!!, but im guessing that it bc its hammering more than twisting. I raised it using an 18" 1/2" ratchet, which worked nearly effortlessly but good gosh, it took FOREVER at 0.20" per rotation and raising it 4 feet. 
As for extending the rods, i might as well had not spent the $$ to do it, since it only gained me 3" of extra height, but the nuts engaged the added rod with no noticeable extra effort, and by the time i got there, my arms were already burning from 10 min of ratcheting, and im sure i would have noticed an extra effort turning through the engagement. 


Will post a 40 sec vid when my internet decides it want to work. 

I did forget to measure the top of drive wheel to guesstimate where the guards will be in relation to the chain tensioning mechanisms and the guide block. Glad i didnt lower it all the way, only 6-8" from the top. But i did take a measurement from the top of the sawbeam to the bottom of the tensioner. I can extrapolate an estimated distance on the guards from the tensioner. 

[charles mann]

lets see if this work. IDK what the deal is. every time i post something, the dang pic turns sideways.

link edited. i deleted the first vid and uploaded a new vid and ensured it would be made public. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_ADWPDDQLQ&feature=youtu.be

[btulloh]

It's marked private. You need to mark it public so we can view it. 

@charles mann 

[charles mann]

It's marked private. You need to mark it public so we can view it.

@charles mann

huh. ill log back and see if i can change it to public.
thanks for letting me know.

[charles mann]

@btulloh try now. if it doesn't work, ill have my wife mess with it when she gets home. idk much about this tech stuff. i still believe in the steam gauge so to speak

[btulloh]

Ok now. You fixed it. 

Did you figure out the torque required?  With some sort of variable speed drive it looks like it would be perfect. Elbow grease, not so good, except for fine tuning. 

[charles mann]

@btulloh yes, 20ft lbs to get it moving and around 18ft lbs to keep it going. 


I think im going to get some hyd lines made up, adapt a hyd motor i have to fit a sprocket i have and temp install it and power it from my tractor. The motor is probably off a feller bunch or some kind of loader, possibly the swing motor, looking the size gear it has. As of now, it is a spline shaft/gear, so ill have to find a way to make it fit a sprocket with a 1.5" bore

[charles mann]

well, over the past week, i got the bracing installed, doesn't wiggle in any direction now. i also temp hung the eng and frame mount. i decided to use the frame that the eng was sitting in, instead of using the frame i fabbed up. the 1 i built was made out of the first mill bed fram i had to cut apart. even the cut sections were as crooked as a politician, no so bad i couldn't use them if need be, but it was MUCH simpler to use what was already there. 

i welded up 2 5" beads and 2.5" of vertical just to see if the load would cantilever the saw beam, which i did NOT and it stayed plum. 

it took around 35ft lbs to keep it moving, but nearly 40 to get it going. i couldn't tell bc the indicator needle was jumping to much, but it never went above 40 or below 30, and i added an est. 800lbs of weight. so I'm happy with that. 

 gotta fab up an additional eng support beam and get some more isolator mounts (would like to order up 4 new of the OEM, but there is only 1 in stock of 1 style, and 4-6 wk lead time on the other, possibly newer style) to help with eng shake on start up. 



 




 




 




 


i only lifted it a few inches, mostly bc IF the welds failed, it wouldn't come crashing down. Im lucky things held together, so now its time to grind welds, move the carriage and fab up some stuff and hope i can find isolators locally that'll work. 


any suggestions on lifting system, hydraulic or electrical? i would like hyd, mostly for ease of control, but i think ill sacrifice speed. i also want to make the carriage motion powered too, and would like it whatever the lifting power is. i just don't know if those dc power units will provide enough flow, plus i think i have to put a limit switch style lever so when i move the lever, it kicks in the solenoid to power the pump. 

suggestions? 

[Crusarius]

If you are going to use hydraulic and are worried about the speed set it up like a forklift lift mechanism. The chain would be connected to a fixed point on the carriage the up and over a sprocket to the sawframe that will be lifting. The ram will then push in the center of it. You will get double stroke length and double speed with that configuration.

As usual I welcome criticism if I am incorrect. But with my skills and experiences it should double speed and stroke. Even in the double configuration you should not have any issues at all lifting that little load.

[Vautour]

Electric motor and gearbox should be ok with your acme rods and would be faster and cheaper to try out without adding hydraulics for the time being...going hydraulic is the other solution as Crusarius mentioned... your at the same spot as i am.. lottsa trials and errors and back to formula..24 volt wheelchair motor with speed control is a cheap way to motion your carriage... motor looks nice.