WM Roller Guide - took a hit and broke off

[Andries]

I was milling short oak logs on a mounting jig.
All was going well until one of them got away on me and scooted over to the drive wheel.
Jammed the band up badly, stalled the motor and cracked into the drive side roller guide wheel.


 
At first I thought that it looked like a "badly bent" episode, but it wasn't.
More like "badly broken".


 

[Magicman]

Ouch.  I see a welder in your future.   :-\

[JB Griffin]

Yup,   that really sucks. :'(

[Andries]

It's deepest darkest winter up here, so I took this as a sign from higher authorities that I shouldn't be abusing equipment in freezing temps. I suppose that breaking things is the knuckleheads way of learning . . . .
The good people at Woodmizer listened to my story and sent out a re-fit kit.


 
So now the questions start.
Has anyone on the FF had to go through this? (or could I be the only knucklehead out here?)
How did it work out for you?

[Magicman]

The good people at Woodmizer listened to my story and sent out a re-fit kit.

Since the good people at WM had a re-fit kit, then you are not the first to break that bracket off.  I am glad to find out just in case it ever happens to my sawmill.   ;D

[Tree Dan]

Did wm give you welding details with that kit?
Are you welding it yourself?

[Magicman]

That kit looks to be a retrofit bolt on bracket.  No welding,

[Andries]

That what I would've thought too MM, but no.

The instructions with the kit state that the unpainted block should be welded on the C frame, with very specific measurement being given, and then the painted block is bolted to the now attached 'mounting' block.
So, your first peek into the crystal ball was right on MM.

Ouch.  I see a welder in your future.   :-\

[Tree Dan]

Oh right, I now see the 4 bolts in the bag
Sometimes we make blocks like that to make welding easy,
And I was going to sugest just to run 2 small welds on the 2 lonng sides and not to weld the top and bottom...unless wm gave the welding details

[Lawg Dawg]

Ya'll have Knuckleheads in Canada too?!

[Andries]

Wouldn't it be just as strong and accurate to re-weld the block back onto the frame stud ?

The stud on the frame looks like this:


Looking for advice and/or experience on this.

[Andries]

Ya'll have Knuckleheads in Canada too?!

Oh yeah, really high quality ones, eh. Comes from a little bit'o frost between the ears.  :D

[Tree Dan]

Yes It would be just as strong....They give you that threaded block to make the welding easier....But If you call in a mobile welder, he would just fit that brocken pc back on and weld it.

Best of luck

[beenthere]

Likely more strength with the longer welds on the new block, but likely more strength than is really needed (unless you are gonna try that trick again...  ;D  )

[Ga Mtn Man]

To me it looks like the new block would be stronger.  You're gonna have to do some welding anyway, so why not us the new one?

[Tree Dan]

Not sure if you have a welding machine up there Andries...But to weld that broken part back on, it can be a bit tricky for the novice welder because your sheild will be right tight to the mill...harder to see.

[Andries]

Not sure if you have a welding machine up there Andries...But to weld that broken part back on, it can be a bit tricky for the novice welder because your sheild will be right tight to the mill...harder to see.

Agreed Dan, thinking that its time to call in the pros.
I'm not a good welder, and my little buzzbox welder probably wouldn't have enough jam to take on metal that thick. As some other wise acreperson said:"when you find yourself in a hole - stop digging".
Might be time to take that 'old saying' to heart.

[HaroldSiefke]

If it were me I would have some one hold the old one in place using old welds to get in correct place and measure it so I would have a reference. Then take a cut off wheel on grinder and cut majority off. Then grid flat and put retrofit in place. Measure to get in correct place tack on ends take out bolts and remove guide block and weld in place.... Good luck and happy milling. Hal

[Magicman]

At least it looks like the retro will be stronger than the original. 

[HaroldSiefke]

I suppose it depends on who welds it.   :D

[Andries]

I suppose it depends on who welds it.   :D

Thinking it'll be good and strong 'cause I'll get it done by someone who welds all day, everyday.
Makes me nervous tho, we've got to place that first block in exactly the right place.
I'll post updates as I go: detach the mill from the extensions, tow the mill to town, welding, then do an entire mill alignment, fire it up and see if it works.

If anyone has done this before, please chime in and let me know that I'm not the first kid on the block with this. :D hate being a guinea pig, or goat . . .

[customsawyer]

If it was me I would get a man to come out to the mill and weld it there. It might cost a bit more but you won't have to take the mill apart and then put it all back together. A good welder should be able to put it in the right place. If they do much welding they should be used to doing precise work.

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
Yes replace with the new kit. Often times we replace the drive side mount because it is worn. If you have a 2002 or newer you should already have this style on your LT40 and larger mill.
The directions are included. You will cut off the stub still on the mill with a grinder or saws all, clean the paint. Follow the instructions on the measurement to locate the plate and weld the plate in place. I always put a old bolt in the hole to keep weld out of the holes.
I have installed many of these. If you have a welder and a steel rule with 32nds on it, and a grinder you should be set.
I hope this helps.
I would not re weld the old part on. Alignment is critical here, you do have some adjustment if you are off a little.   

Thanks
Marty

[Peter Drouin]

And make sure the welder puts the ground right next to where there welding so the juice stays next to the roller and not all over the mill.

[Chuck White]

I guess, I'd go ahead and do it right like Marty explained.

I agree with Peter, keep the ground close to the welding location, you don't want your welding circuit going through rollers, bearings, etc.

[Andries]

Thanks for the input and advice people.
Goose 63 had pointed out the 'on-board' electronics being sensitive to welding in a PM last night.
My 1992 LT30 is manual and about as basic as WM has ever made - so at least I won't have to worry about an Accuset or transponder getting fried.
Marty, thanks for the comments and really, someday I WILL have a mill thats 2002 or newer.  :D
Jake, good comment on mobile welders, but I think I'll pull the mill away from the extensions and into the shop.
I'm the second owner of this mill and, not to get too graphic about the details, but his work crews were related to Fred Flinstone - y'know what I mean . . .
I'm going to replace the battery box (bottom and side acid-rusted out) the blade guide assembly (been smacked into logs and is bent).
I've been told by the timber framer that I work with that there's a ton of work coming my way in the next six months - so the time is right for giving the old mill some TLC.

[pineywoods]

I broke off the outboard guide. Positioned it back by eyeball and welded it with a stick welder. It was off a bit, but had enough adjusment range to get it back in specs...

[j-dland]

    I agree with Marty, you have the re-fit kit, use it. Would also like to add , any good fabricator\welder could easily remove the mounting block, reattach to the guide, with a four sided weld, not three, then re attach the whole assembly. Sometimes you need cheaper\quicker solutions. Just sayin. On the subject of electronics, it is always good practice to remove battery cables before any welding on any equipment with any electronics!

[pine]

As was already referenced. 
Any electronics that are on the mill isolate them.  Disconnect the battery, the ground cable, the power cable, and keep the welding clamp close to the point of welding/electrode.  With electronics you can never be too careful when welding.  Don't have a WM but have read enough of other folks woes on odd electronic issues to be careful.  I am certain that the WM instructions address this quite well as they know what they are doing.

[Andries]

An update on the 'hit and broke' thread . . .
After detaching the mill from the extensions, I hauled it to the welder's shop. Ordinarily that would be a two hour job, but we're enjoying winter here folks, so I've put this off for a few of those windchill days.
My welding guy had to look around for a steel rule with 1/32" graduations (he's used to working with mm's) and after cutting, grinding, marking and tacking it looked good. So, he ran a good strong bead around the entire block.

A bit of paint to slow the rust down and away we go. The bolts were there to keep welding splatter from getting into the threaded holes.

[Andries]

Looks like this with the mounting block bolted on.



That red colour sure looks awful next to that spanking new orange. Might want to cover that with sawdust soon.

[Andries]

Marty Parsons mentioned in reply #22 that the WM mills that are built 2002 and newer are set up this way.
So, lets see . . .  as I keep the repairs going, it'll be about . .  . 2038 and I'll have converted my entire mill to a new version!   :D

[Ga Mtn Man]

Looks like he did a good job on the welding.  Bet you won't be breaking that off anytime soon.

[Chuck White]

Glad to see you've gotten you mill repaired.

[4x4American]

Little late now, but still good to know, they make surge protectors for when you're welding on things with computers.  I always had to remember to put one on (and take it off) when I worked at a Western Star dealer because of all the computers on the trucks.  A friend who is big into mud bogging/dirt racing told me that at one bog he was at his arch nemesis' brother was welding on a truck after they broke something, anyways once he was done they tried to start it up but it wouldn't turn over.  Can anyone guess what happened?  Always keep the ground as close as you can when welding on cars, trucks, sawmills, tractors, etc.  It is also very important to have a clean ground. 

Anyways, looks good, I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon. 

[drobertson]

 Good fix, thanks for showing us the process.  Oh yea, there is a least one knuckle head down here ;D I have to work with him everyday, heck of a nice guy, just at times dumber than a sock of rocks.

[MartyParsons]

Hello,
Nice weld job. The bolts on the right and left are course thread and the top and bottom are fine thread? That looks strange. They should be all fine thread.  ???  Did you change it or did it come that way? No big deal as long as you get your adjustment.
I replace a few of these a year. Most times the square hole is not square any more and the roller moves.

Marty

[Andries]

Hello,
Nice weld job. The bolts on the right and left are course thread and the top and bottom are fine thread? That looks strange. They should be all fine thread.  ???  Did you change it or did it come that way?
Marty

My bad Marty. You've got a good eye and I posted a fuzzy pic. The adjustment bolts are all fine thread, and stainless steel to boot. Nice! (I didn't change anything that WM sent me. Not THAT brave.)
Here's a better pic.