Just Getting Started w/ 1999 Franklin 170

ZAB · February 04, 2019, 11:44:13 PM

My first post here and I'm just getting re-started in the woods after a good 20 year break. Figured I have a good 10 years left in me cutting wood and keeping the back strong. Anyway I've been all over looking at skidders over the past few months and ended up purchasing a 1999 Franklin 170 cable skidder. This has the deere 6068T motor. The machine definately has some blow-by and has just under 12K on the clock. It idles good and runs well with the throttle floored but sputters at mid range - think it is the injection pump as previous owner said new injectors put in 300 hours ago. I got this machine at the "needs overhauled" price so I think I did well on the purchase. My question is can and should I run it until it losses most of its power? Seems fairly strong still and I am hoping to knock out a small job or two or even more - before it goes down and sent to the shop. Do I risk causing any serious engine problems by continuing to run it? Also, any insight on the machine would be greatly appreciated. Thanks - Dave

BargeMonkey · February 05, 2019, 01:34:08 AM

I would do the simple things to prolong life as long as you can, clean air / oil, make sure your valves are set in spec, 6.8 is a tough engine, I've seen a few in the marine world with 23-25k hours with just a head thrown on. 250hr oil changes go a long ways.

mike_belben · February 05, 2019, 10:35:07 AM

Sputters in the middle only is a new one on me and does not seem consistent with a fuel problem. Or atleast it is not one i have experienced yet. If you didnt have fuel supply top end would fall off and get rumbly. If you had air infiltration on the suction side of the lift pump youd probably see hard starts with a lot of farting until it rumbles out.

Is it a common rail high pressure fuel system or a mechanical pump? Inline or rotary?

Is this turbo charged? Im thinking boost leak. No boost at idle to go missing. Slow, rough spoolup in the middle, then decent top end when the compressor is lit and moving enough CFM to spare a few out the leaks. ..??? Is it black smokey in the midrange when rough running?

Does it consume or create coolant or oil? Does it every burp the radiator cap or have a rock hard top hose? A temporary overflow extensions hose into a 2 liter bottle of water taped next to the operator is the best way to see what the radiator is doing under load. Mark the water level on the bottle and watch for bubbling or rising or green coloring.

I cant think of anything in a bosch type plunger/barrel style pump thatd be a midrange only issue. Leaky orings would fuel down the crankcase so i guess check for that, smell and feel your oil for wateryness. If it ignites easy when cold its fueled.

ZAB · February 05, 2019, 04:09:57 PM

Thanks for the laundry list Mike. I definitely have a lot to go over. I am waiting for the machine to be delivered this week and my experience running it was just over at the previous owners place. I am by all means a diesel novice, but I do know a few maniac mechanics I'll likely get an opinion from. I'm just going off what the previous owner has told me. Smoke was not black at all and it fired right up in below freezing weather. Supposedly the turbo is about a year old. When I get it home ill get a more thorough understanding of how it runs. Thanks for the info and I'll look into your questions.

mike_belben · February 05, 2019, 07:05:23 PM

If its a good cold starter youve likely not got any major issue, especially not fuel. It takes a good running and fully primed system for a quick cold start so those are all in your favor. Im feeling pretty good about my boost leak guess. Soapy water is your friend there. Make sure the bolts that hold the compressor cover onto the CHRA arent loosening. Ive had that. You also have an o-ring inside the compressor and naturally the manifold has a gasket too. Any exhaust leak upstream of turbine will also do similar to what you describe.

I dont know if you have the means to install them but a pair of 50 or 100psi air pressure gauges, one in your exhaust manifold and one in your charge pipe is about the best way to troubleshoot charger issues. Youll basically see the same pressure across both sides under load. It takes about 20psi of exhaust pressure [drive pressure] to make 20 psi of boost. If youve got 20 psi drive and 9 psi boost, houston, we have a problem.

mike_belben · February 05, 2019, 07:07:13 PM

Pull your air intake boot and see if the compressor blades have rubbed the cover. Or if the shaft wobbles excessively. Some play is normal.

No intercooler right?

ZAB · February 05, 2019, 09:53:07 PM

I don't even know if it has an intercooler. Shop that originally sold it said it has 195hp - not sure if anyone would know off of that. Really hard to find any Franklin info online. Should be delivered tomorrow or Thursday. It's a sloppy mess out so I'll take some time and go over it much more thoroughly when it gets here.

mike_belben · February 05, 2019, 10:05:28 PM

A 190hp truck diesel would typically be intercooled so decent chance there. This an inline 6?

Southside · February 05, 2019, 10:17:04 PM

Might be worth calling Forestry & Construction Parts in Goode, VA they bought a lot of Franklin books, parts, etc at the end there and are a great resource.

ZAB · February 06, 2019, 12:32:39 AM

Thanks I will check them out, would love to get a manual. Yes, it is an inline 6.

Southside · February 06, 2019, 07:56:58 AM

I would love to get a manual too, but odds of me winning the Powerball are greater, and we don't play.

The manuals are rare. Were printed as the machine left the plant is my understanding.

woodmaker · February 06, 2019, 07:09:35 PM

I bought manuals for my q80c from Baker equipment in Ohio.The manuals were pricey, but i found no other source for the info.

backwoodsdave · February 06, 2019, 10:44:06 PM

I would think a 99 yr model 6068t will have the small rotary roosa master style injection pump on it, if it cranks ok after setting say overnight and idles good and pulls on the top end like it should you may just run some atf or sea foam in the fuel for a while, that rotary pump has an internal timing advance and will give problems on acceleration causing flutter, and I would also go around and check all the rubber seals on the fuel lines, mainly on the suction side of the filters and lift pump, there notorious for sucking air and causing issues, and 12k is not bad on the 6068t, I'd service it out good and give it run.

Skeans1 · February 06, 2019, 11:41:46 PM

Same engine in a different machine it'd sputter like your description of the fuel filter was getting plugged up.

ZAB · February 07, 2019, 08:08:37 PM

Ran it a bit today before the rain hit hard and it seemed to run a bit better with not as much sputter. The injection pump is a Stanadyne. I think the machine sat for a good 6 months or so and it could be in the fuel or filter (I'm hoping). I will change my fuel filter first and go from there.

backwoodsdave - thanks I will indeed look over the rubber seals and try some sea foam.

I called around for a manual to no avail - most shops just laughed ... a man with a service manual for these Franklins could make copies and make a good penny selling 'em. I know i'd pay.

Southside · February 07, 2019, 09:20:14 PM

If it has sat around that long then you may have algae in the fuel along with water and other crud. Might be worth draining and rinsing the tank.

backwoodsdave · February 07, 2019, 09:36:46 PM

Quote from: ZAB on February 07, 2019, 08:08:37 PM
Ran it a bit today before the rain hit hard and it seemed to run a bit better with not as much sputter. The injection pump is a Stanadyne. I think the machine sat for a good 6 months or so and it could be in the fuel or filter (I'm hoping). I will change my fuel filter first and go from there.

backwoodsdave - thanks I will indeed look over the rubber seals and try some sea foam.

I called around for a manual to no avail - most shops just laughed ... a man with a service manual for these Franklins could make copies and make a good penny selling 'em. I know i'd pay.

Yep that's the roosa stanadyne pump that has the internal advance, it's hydraulic and it works off fuel pressure that's bled off the internal transfer pump, they are a good pump and rarely give trouble unless you get a bunch of trash in the system or they set for a long time, most trouble I see are restricted supply lines, cracked rubber suction hoses, sucking air at those rubbers at the fittings.