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Started by Dan_Shade, September 30, 2012, 08:09:26 PM

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Dan_Shade

what kind of glue do you guys use?

I've been thinking of switching to hot hide glue, but I've never messed with the stuff. 

I want something with a long open time, but I saw some things that hide glue can have a short open time.

I'm confused....
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

clww

I use either Titebond II(mostly) or Gorilla Glue.
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

WDH

Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I use TITEBOND III and Monkey Glue. I get it at LOWE'S.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Tree Feller

I use primarily TBIII, sometimes epoxy, CA on turnings because of the quick set and Urea Formaldehyde on some laminations (no creep). If I need gap-filling properties in non-structural applications I'll use Poly glue (Gorilla Glue) but otherwise I stay away from it.

If you use something like Old Brown Glue or Titebond Liquid Hide Glue, you will get the benefit of a long open time plus the repairability and finish compatability of hot hide glue. You don't get the stink or the mess, either.

Hot hide glue has a very quick tack and a short open time which makes it ideal for hammer veneering or attaching glue blocks and cleats with a simple rub joint.

Neither liquid hide glue nor hot hide glue will tolerate any moisture exposure. The glue will soften and fail if it gets wet.

Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

Dan_Shade

thanks guys.  I've use TB, TBII, and now more or less use TBIII exclusively.

I try to design my projects so that the glue is a "nice to have", but some joints are impossible to do that way (miters).

I have thought about switching to hide glue to give somebody a chance 100 years down the road to repair my projects if need be...

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Larry

I use Titebond Original 90% of the time cause its cheapest of the three.  Titebond III if I need a little more open time.  About the only time I need water resistance is on cutting boards.  I'm pushing the open time on my end grain cutting boards.

For really long open times I not sure what to use these days.   In the past I have used resorcinol glue but it has disappeared from the market.  Plastic resin works but its also hard to find and may be out of date from some suppliers.  Unibond 800 is still available but I think only in gallons.  If you find any of the above be aware some is brown...might be a problem on white woods.

A lot of folks are using epoxy but locally all I can find is the 5 minute type anymore.  Last week I got some West System G/Flex epoxy and thickened G/Flex from Jamestown Distributors.  I have a complicated glue up in a week, were I need a long open time.  This will be a first for me.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

DouginUtah


Titebond Extend Original has an open time of 15 minutes whereas Titebond III has an open time of 10 minutes.
-Doug
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---

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SwampDonkey

I had to bore out some holes in that old rocker to get the broken ends of the spokes removed. There was what I believe to be old hide glue in there. As soon as I pulled out the bit to the air it hardened right up. That's quite a mess on a bit. I had to scrape the stuff off. Don't want anything to do with it. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Dan_Shade

If its hide glue, then warm water should help clean everything up.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Lud

TB III for the last year or so.   Good stuff.   
Simplicity mill, Ford 1957 Golden Jubilee 841 Powermaster, 40x60 bankbarn, left-handed

WDH

My experience with hide glue was the real stuff, the actual hide particles.  It was tedious and messy to dissolve the glue with a double boiler.  I have not used the liquid stuff.  Not sure that it is going to help you all that much.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Dan_Shade

i like to pretend that the stuff I build will be useful to somebody 100 years from now.  I'd hate to see something go on a burn pile because of a non-repairable glue joint failure.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Tree Feller

Quote from: Dan_Shade on October 01, 2012, 09:10:11 PM
i like to pretend that the stuff I build will be useful to somebody 100 years from now.  I'd hate to see something go on a burn pile because of a non-repairable glue joint failure.

You might care now. You won't in 100 years, guaranteed.  :D

I hear what you're saying, though, although there are two schools of thought on the subject of furniture longevity. One, like yours, is that repairability is a concern when the joints fail in 100 years. The other is that modern glues are so much superior to hide glue that the glue joints will last many, many years longer before needing repair.

Ever noticed how most 18th century furniture has pegged M&T construction? That's because the maker knew the glue would fail. Instead of a catastrophic failure, however, the pegs still held the joint together.

Quote from: SwampDonkey on October 01, 2012, 06:55:26 AM
I had to bore out some holes in that old rocker to get the broken ends of the spokes removed.

I think round M&T joints (like chair spindles) are absolutely the first to fail on furniture.
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

WDH

I tried to repair some old rocking chairs that were 80 or 90 years old with the round spindle tenons.  I gave up on the project as it was very difficult and frustrating.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

hackberry jake

I use tb I most of the time as well. Tb III when I need water resistance.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

Brad_bb

Dan_Shade,
You didn't mention your application.  My knowledge is only recent.  Titebond is easy to reach for, but may not have the open time you are looking for.  Unibond 800 veneer glue is supposed to have a much longer open time.  It works well in a vacuum bag press because it will be held in place until cured, and adjustable til your satisfied.

Recently I've been learning about antique wood radios from the 20's through the 40's.  They were all wood veneered with hide glue.  The benefit of the hide glue is that you can remove the veneer for repair or restoration with an iron and damp towel.  After watching this removal(on a DVD), I then watched him do repairs with titebond.  I emailed and asked why he was doing that?  Doing do means you will have a devil of a time if you ever have to repair it again.  I think he should have used hide glue for the repairs.  That's a great feature of real hide glue- it's removeable.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

jamesamd

I use TBII & III most.
I have this on My wish list at Lee Valley http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=45104&cat=1,110,42965&ap=1 
I'll start with the smallest first,I trust LV with most of My woodworking purchases.
I would rather trade with an Ally than a enemy.
Jim   
All that is gold does not glitter,not all those that wander are lost.....

Tree Feller

That Lee Valley glue looks interesting, very interesting. Long open time, gap-filling, minimal glue spots, all in a PVA glue.

I buy a lot of stuff from Lee Valley. I think I'll give that glue a try.
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

ely

i used a bottle of the gorrilla wood glue and now i have bought a bigger bottle of the elmers yellow carpenters glue... i have not had good luck at all with the shelf life of the gorrilla glue that is a brown liquid that seems to foam out of the seams if you dampen the surfaces before glueing.
the actual glue joint is great and strong but the cleanup is terrible and the next time i go for that bottle it is hardened... and that is with me squeezing all the air out before storing it.

WDH

Fine Woodworking did a test on glues a while back, and I recall that the worst performer in terms of strength was the Polyurethane glue. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Tree Feller

Quote from: WDH on October 03, 2012, 08:33:07 PM
Fine Woodworking did a test on glues a while back, and I recall that the worst performer in terms of strength was the Polyurethane glue.

I don't know about all poly glues but Gorilla Glue is inconsistent. Sometimes it bonds stronger than a gorilla and other times the glue bond fails at the slightest stress. Then there's the issue with the foaming and worst of all, it turns black on one's hands and doesn't wash off. It has to wear off.

Like Ely wrote, the shelf life is pretty short, too, once you open the bottle. I buy it in very small bottles so that I don't have as much to toss when it hardens.
Cody

Logmaster LM-1 Sawmill
Kioti CK 30 w/ FEL
Stihl MS-290 Chainsaw
48" Logrite Cant Hook
Well equipped, serious, woodworking shop

hackberry jake

I have never had a glue joint fail with tb. When I started woodworking. One of my first projects was a hallway table. I took two 8' walnut boards and stood them on end for the frame about 18" apart. I then cut a bunch of walnut and cherry boards 18" long and glued them together and to the top of the table. (with the grain of the wood running perpendicular to the frame). This was before I had a jointer and the boards were only close to straight edged. The glue joints all stayed intact but I ended up with over 1/2" gaps where the wood busted apart.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

hackberry jake

First lesson learned: dry wood before using. Second lesson learned: make sure hard glue joints have the grain runnin in the same direction.
https://www.facebook.com/TripleTreeWoodworks

EZ Boardwalk Jr. With 20hp Honda, 25' of track, and homemade setworks. 32x18 sawshed. 24x40 insulated shop. 30hp kubota with fel. 1978 Massey ferguson 230.

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