haveing issues

coxy · May 24, 2016, 07:02:48 AM

with the plunge cut when I make the front cut I snip the sides about an inch(to cut the sap wood) then do the back cut when the tree falls it will split on the hinge and sliver say 3-4in of the tree (most of the time it only rips a 3-4ft slab off the tree) am I not cutting the front wedge deep enough or am I leaving to much hinge wood the hinge wood is only about 1-2in thick the trees are about 20-28in on the stump and its ash don't have any trouble with other trees

xalexjx · May 24, 2016, 07:16:48 AM

try a smaller hinge for ash,

grassfed · May 24, 2016, 07:17:48 AM

Ash with its straight grain is prone to splitting (makes you look good when hand splitting firewood ;)). Make sure that your wedge/face cut is perfect-no bypass. Make sure that your back cut is level not over or under your hinge. I would try making the hinge a bit on the narrow side and or bore out the middle a bit. That is all I can think of right now but watch out for bypass cuts when you nip the sides too-anything that can start a crack.

sandsawmill14 · May 24, 2016, 07:42:37 AM

i always tried to cut about 1" above the bottom of the notch

i dont know if that was right or helped or not just what i did ??? boring through the notch will certainly help but ash is hard and it was not uncommon for me to bore to much and the tree set down on the saw :-\ then have to use the other saw to release the tree but they didnt split ;D i did cut 1 that was about 30" dia that was real crooked curved to one side about 2' then turned back up straight it broke into 3 logs when it hit the ground the green had gren leaves when it was cut and was sound but ash is very brittle as well a straight grained

RHP Logging · May 24, 2016, 08:02:27 AM

Gut the heartwood instead of the sapwood. Leave an inch or less of hinge. Even big trees don't need as thick of a hinge like everyone claims. Are you boring them because they are leaning? Also use a wider face and a snipe. The snipe allows the tree to keep moving over the stump instead of stalling which causes the split.

thenorthman · May 24, 2016, 08:51:57 AM

Sounds like yer ash is like our alder.

make a wide open face, lets the hold wood flex as much as possible, stalling on the face is what starts fiber pull, and stalling in general will cause a chair, bore the heart if possible, and get the back cut up about an inch or so, this lets it break the hold wood rather then pull fiber.

Not knowing how ash holds on the stump I'm not going to suggest leaving less hold wood, but for alders less is better, at least with fiber pull and chairing. Of course unless you plan on beating it over with wedges, then more is better and fiber pull is a secondary concern

BargeMonkey · May 24, 2016, 09:06:52 AM

I know what your getting at. Hillside / heavy lean or "swamp ash" doesn't take much to rip and look like an amateur. :D lately I've been moving my hinge in a little bit, and contrary to "Mr Supercuts" opinion's no single method works best, I had a kid who cut for me for a while, had cut for my cousin / wagner, did alot of things unconventional and pulled off some trees and angles that left me speechless.
We cut this decent ash / maple lot a couple years ago, 2 guys working across the hillside, became a competitive sport, especially after people watch "ax-men" and think those guys are gods gift. We had a phrase when you pulled off something wicked.
"Free lessons, be here all week" and pick up your saw and walk away. :D

ehp · May 24, 2016, 09:29:11 AM

Coxy , does the ash have EAB in it as that changes everything , the longer the tree has EAB the harder they become to cut because the tree becomes a lot harder and brittle to the point its like cutting glass . You bore cut everything with as small of hinge wood as you can without the tree sitting on the saw and bore the heart wood , If you leave a hinge like in maple the ash will split

treeslayer2003 · May 24, 2016, 09:34:51 AM

i would block and gut them. depth of gut depends on lean.

happy birthday barge monkey.

treeslayer2003 · May 24, 2016, 09:41:29 AM

coxy can you show me a pic of the but cut off? i want to see what the heart looks like. plus we can better tell you what ya might have done wrong.

BargeMonkey · May 24, 2016, 09:44:25 AM

Quote from: treeslayer2003 on May 24, 2016, 09:34:51 AM
i would block and gut them. depth of gut depends on lean.

happy birthday barge monkey.

Thank you. Getting "old". :D
Again I love reading the FF because the wealth of knowledge is huge. Seeing what / how some of you guys handcut makes me feel like an amateur sometimes. I would try moving your hinge in a but more, and try and leave as little wood connected as possible. A small block off the end hides alot of shame sometimes.

treeslayer2003 · May 24, 2016, 09:53:03 AM

Quote from: BargeMonkey on May 24, 2016, 09:44:25 AM
Quote from: treeslayer2003 on May 24, 2016, 09:34:51 AM
i would block and gut them. depth of gut depends on lean.

happy birthday barge monkey.
Thank you. Getting "old". :D
Again I love reading the FF because the wealth of knowledge is huge. Seeing what / how some of you guys handcut makes me feel like an amateur sometimes. I would try moving your hinge in a but more, and try and leave as little wood connected as possible. A small block off the end hides alot of shame sometimes.

add 12 years lol

motohed · May 24, 2016, 10:03:41 AM

Typically on big ash , I will bore cut to the hing cut and wedge the that cut and release from from back of the tree . This will allow you to get an inch to 1.5 inch hing with the tree still standing releasing from the back has worked well . Be carefull till you learn the technique .

coxy · May 24, 2016, 09:20:51 PM

Quote from: ehp on May 24, 2016, 09:29:11 AM
Coxy , does the ash have EAB in it as that changes everything , the longer the tree has EAB the harder they become to cut because the tree becomes a lot harder and brittle to the point its like cutting glass . You bore cut everything with as small of hinge wood as you can without the tree sitting on the saw and bore the heart wood , If you leave a hinge like in maple the ash will split

no EAB think I figured it out was not making the notch big enough going in about 6-8in worked good and cut 3-4in in on the sap wood side no splintering like I said they where not splitting just ripping a slab off the notch side and in 2 weeks ill have to go to the doc and get the rest of my leg put back on ill be on half flat ground again thanks for the info guys treeslayer2003 ill try and remember my phon I don't get service there so I leave it home

RHP Logging · May 24, 2016, 09:29:13 PM

Quote from: BargeMonkey on May 24, 2016, 09:06:52 AM
contrary to "Mr Supercuts" opinion's no single method works best.

If you'd been paying attention there is no single method to how I cut. Maybe you should get a caliper and calculator to dial in that exact hinge thickness when you bore cut. Or maybe just stay on the boat. At least I've moved beyond what my chainsaw operators manual teaches on how to "fell" trees.

BargeMonkey · May 25, 2016, 03:16:46 AM

Quote from: RHP Logging on May 24, 2016, 09:29:13 PM
Quote from: BargeMonkey on May 24, 2016, 09:06:52 AM
contrary to "Mr Supercuts" opinion's no single method works best.

If you'd been paying attention there is no single method to how I cut. Maybe you should get a caliper and calculator to dial in that exact hinge thickness when you bore cut. Or maybe just stay on the boat. At least I've moved beyond what my chainsaw operators manual teaches on how to "fell" trees.

Wow. I threw out a comment, primarily for the NE guys who have done GOL in this area, and you took it as a personal offensive remark. I literally have nothing but respect and awe for you guys who can handcut on that level I see posted. We have an instructor out here who literally goes by "that name", you took it completely the wrong way. Unfortunately do to the age gap, regional and occupational differences its hard for me to post on here, but send me your address and I will overnight you a case of tissues and feminine products if your still upset after me explaining my post and my apology.
Been reading the FF for 3+yrs now ???, actually met some great people and have went out of my way to help a few guys if I could. I really try not to post and be "that guy". You do this for a living, to me this an expensive hobby and I'm biting my tongue right now trying not to be "that guy".
I have thick skin but took the boat dig personal. Not going to continue this any further and will actually stop posting for a while so no one gets their nose bent out of shape.

RHP Logging · May 25, 2016, 06:18:06 AM

Quote from: BargeMonkey on May 25, 2016, 03:16:46 AM
Quote from: RHP Logging on May 24, 2016, 09:29:13 PM
Quote from: BargeMonkey on May 24, 2016, 09:06:52 AM
contrary to "Mr Supercuts" opinion's no single method works best.

If you'd been paying attention there is no single method to how I cut. Maybe you should get a caliper and calculator to dial in that exact hinge thickness when you bore cut. Or maybe just stay on the boat. At least I've moved beyond what my chainsaw operators manual teaches on how to "fell" trees.
Wow. I threw out a comment, primarily for the NE guys who have done GOL in this area, and you took it as a personal offensive remark. I literally have nothing but respect and awe for you guys who can handcut on that level I see posted. We have an instructor out here who literally goes by "that name", you took it completely the wrong way. Unfortunately do to the age gap, regional and occupational differences its hard for me to post on here, but send me your address and I will overnight you a case of tissues and feminine products if your still upset after me explaining my post and my apology.
Been reading the FF for 3+yrs now ???, actually met some great people and have went out of my way to help a few guys if I could. I really try not to post and be "that guy". You do this for a living, to me this an expensive hobby and I'm biting my tongue right now trying not to be "that guy".
I have thick skin but took the boat dig personal. Not going to continue this any further and will actually stop posting for a while so no one gets their nose bent out of shape.

Whatever. It sure seemed like it was directed at me. If you read from the top down kind of hard not to take it that way. I'm 3 years older than you so I'm not sure what that' about. I'm used to getting poked at on other sites about my cutting. Wouldn't be surprised if it carried on.

thenorthman · May 25, 2016, 08:46:12 AM

Well... I though I was Mr. Supercuts... i'm terribly disappointed now. You know on a account of the flowing locks of shaggy hair :D

teakwood · May 25, 2016, 08:55:23 AM

Calm down guys. No need to get offensive.
Barge has been a well respected ff member for a long time now, and i have never seen an offensive post from him.

How did that cougar situation go?? ;D

BargeMonkey · May 25, 2016, 04:00:31 PM

I've got nothing to gain by trying to trying to belittle someone else, especially someone who is 1200??? Miles away and cuts by hand fulltime, had 0% intention of that. All my stupid "equipment posts" and dumb questions aside I'm a business man. I try to not rub anyone the wrong way without motive or intention, that "supercuts" comment was a direct shot at someone else and you mistook it, again no harm intended towards you. I will probably look to the pool of qualified people on the FF with the intention of literally poaching someone to work for me, very careful how I go about stuff most of the time, you don't know me, I don't know you, but logging is literally a tiny fraction of what we have our hand in, so again I try to look at anyone who is a "professional" as a source of information and knowledge.
The cougar sounded fun, when the truth came that "I was going to be Jodi" I realized quick to run away fast.
That my friends is what I call a "UNICORN" because it's a mythical creature that's only seen and never captured. That is a 28yr old farmers daughter who runs a 100 head dairy up north and is counting the days till I get home. She TOLD me I was going with HER to Boonville. Literally lost a piece of my man card last night but I don't care.

She laughed when I said I was throwing her picture up, so hopefully no one gets to upset, or falls out of the chair.
Just something good to laugh at, hopefully no one takes offense.

Gary_C · May 25, 2016, 04:25:12 PM

Nice heifer there. Looks like a keeper. The young lady too. :D :D

ehp · May 25, 2016, 04:31:00 PM

Barge, we have never spoke face to face but you are one of the guys on here I like reading your post cause their pretty straight forward and good to read. And your a lot smarter than what you let on you are to be . As far as this lady goes from the picture I would tell you to put some time in to get to know her , she looks like a keeper and I'm, not talking about looks . She looks like she is a worker and that is what I looked for plus she is good looking

Ed_K · May 25, 2016, 05:26:46 PM

Ok! all's good. I want to know what you bought for your B day. I have a bumper sticker "No farms no farm girls". Mine's 62 the day before your b day and I still have'nt got the farm part out ;D .

Jeff · May 25, 2016, 05:35:15 PM

Quote from: RHP Logging on May 25, 2016, 06:18:06 AM
I'm used to getting poked at on other sites about my cutting. Wouldn't be surprised if it carried on.

Well there's your problem. THIS is not other sites. It is the Forestry Forum and we do not roll that way here. The Forestry Forum is all about the positive, and when it becomes other than that, you see my mug step in, or one of the other admins. I read down through the whole topic. Twice, and the only animosity I saw was yours. But now I understand. Forget what you learn at any other sites about how to react to a post, for within these walls it doth not apply.

RHP Logging · May 25, 2016, 07:16:12 PM

Yeah I guess I was a little out of line. That time of the month around here, plus super tired, plus some crap days at work = sucky attitude. I just figured I had a name for myself behind my back already. That's pretty much why I've ditched other sites. Tired of the stupid bs from amateurs and has beens.

Sorry Barge! Nice looking lady friend. Or special lady? (I.E. Jeffery lebowski) ;D